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Old 03-13-2014, 06:27 PM   #85
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Quote:
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Airbags wasn't my earlier post.

Targa on the Corvette is considered a convertible by the Federal standards. Convertibles are exempt. So yes, they can make convertibles.

If you would like to read the standards let me know and I'll post links. I've done in the past when this comes up.
Sorry, I was referring to Pyrolsis's post instead of yours where he stated it was because of the air bag regulations, you were basically answering my question to him about the airbags, nothing was mentioned in his post about side impact standards.

So does that mean they could make a Targa top Camaro to get around the side impact regulations?
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Old 03-13-2014, 06:58 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrybird 12 View Post
Sorry, I was referring to Pyrolsis's post instead of yours where he stated it was because of the air bag regulations, you were basically answering my question to him about the airbags, nothing was mentioned in his post about side impact standards.

So does that mean they could make a Targa top Camaro to get around the side impact regulations?
Yes, that would work.

Problem is the size of the panel, the ability to get it off easily and where you would store it. The Camaro roof panel would likely be bigger than the Corvette which just from the size can be difficult to manage.

Also it would have to fit in the trunk.

Do you remember the Solstice Hard Top? It had a targa, but you had to leave it at home because you couldn't store it on board. They developed a canvas folding top you could carry for emergency weather issues.

BTW can anyone say C7???
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Old 03-13-2014, 07:18 PM   #87
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Yes, that would work.

Problem is the size of the panel, the ability to get it off easily and where you would store it. The Camaro roof panel would likely be bigger than the Corvette which just from the size can be difficult to manage.

Also it would have to fit in the trunk.

Do you remember the Solstice Hard Top? It had a targa, but you had to leave it at home because you couldn't store it on board. They developed a canvas folding top you could carry for emergency weather issues.

BTW can anyone say C7???
Hmm a soft top removable fold up panel for a targa top Camaro....
Right after the Saturn Sky pictures came out I did a Photoshop of a C6 Corvette targa top on a Sky and posted it on the Skyforum... It looked better than the Solstice Coupe.
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:55 PM   #88
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Speaking of the corvette,and the ZO6 having a removable top,are they going to now need a roll bar to run at the drag strip ?
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Old 03-13-2014, 11:04 PM   #89
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Not sure if you have seen the new mustang in person, but it was one bad mamajama ... it looks amazing
+1 its still a american made pony car,and i would rather drive a american stamped car than a car from across the western seas....
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Old 03-14-2014, 09:24 AM   #90
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+1 its still a american made pony car,and i would rather drive a american stamped car than a car from across the western seas....
Camaro - Made in Canada
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Old 03-14-2014, 09:38 AM   #91
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Not the 6th gen.
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:53 AM   #92
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The new ATS coupe is 3418 lbs with turbo-4cyl. I am thinking the 6th gen with V8 will add net 300 lbs for engine/drivetrain/susp. Maybe GM can save 50 lbs by cutting the Cadillac stuff out. Maybe 3600-3700 for the V8. The V6 might be 3400-3500 lbs.

In the meantime the current car looks great, handles great, is stout/safe, and IMO the weight issue is exaggerated. The Audi RS5 coupe is 4009 lbs. I am gonna wait on the '16 until the LT1 gets some time in, particularly with AFM even in the manual trans versions.
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Old 03-14-2014, 12:43 PM   #93
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Camaro - Made in Canada
For one more year... and then it's back home to the good ol' U.S.A.
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Old 03-14-2014, 12:52 PM   #94
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The new ATS coupe is 3418 lbs with turbo-4cyl. I am thinking the 6th gen with V8 will add net 300 lbs for engine/drivetrain/susp. Maybe GM can save 50 lbs by cutting the Cadillac stuff out. Maybe 3600-3700 for the V8. The V6 might be 3400-3500 lbs.

In the meantime the current car looks great, handles great, is stout/safe, and IMO the weight issue is exaggerated. The Audi RS5 coupe is 4009 lbs. I am gonna wait on the '16 until the LT1 gets some time in, particularly with AFM even in the manual trans versions.
You might not be far off, but if GM uses the same length chassis as the ATS, then I feel a bit more optimistic than that. If they use a longer chasis, something between ATS and the CTS (since the Alpha platform is not static in size) then it could weigh more.

The ATS V6 weighs around 3,450 lbs...and I think that includes the goodies like MRC suspension and maybe even better brakes than a V6 Camaro. Now one would think a Camaro based on the same chasis would weigh less, due to things like less sound insulation, and less technology and less high end materials on the inside. So I'm going to say we could still see a V6 Camaro come in at right around 3,400 lbs give or take.

Now, the current V8 Camaro weighs between100 - 150 lbs more than a comparibly equipped V6 Camaro. Thats the engine, brakes, driveline and the whole bit. So apply that to my figure above for a 6th gen V6, and you end up right around 3,550 lbs for a 6th gen Camaro SS. So I think that coming in under 3,600, or maybe right around that mark sounds very attainable to me for the next SS.

Thats a good 250ish lbs lost, and I'm betting puts it right in the same ballpark as the 2015 Mustang GT b/c I doubt it has lost much if any weight.

Lets hope this can happen!
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Old 03-14-2014, 01:04 PM   #95
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On a different note...something else I'd like to use to make a point. I have been harping over and over again that I hope GM keeps the Camaro looking strong, bold,...give it presense on the street. Don't soften up too much on us like Ford did with the Mustang.

Ford recently released some early sketches of the 2015 Mustang before the final form came to be, and I have to admit it looks pretty killer compared to what we got in the end.

There is a thread on a Mustang site where these are shown, and everyone just loves them. Comment after comment basically saying they wish thats what they had ended up with, or they wish the final version had some aspect of this design. (of course "ThePill has to come in and set his little sheep straight and tell them Ford went soft early so they can make it more aggressive later, and that in reality the Mustang is "perfect" as it is...especially compared to the Camaro which he hates with a religious passion)

Take a look....







Now I realize not every aspect of these kinds of sketches can make production...it isn't possible, but still.

Look at how the Camaro was sketched way back when....





In 2006 this was an extremely bold design...and to our delight its pretty much exactly what we ended up with.

So again....to GM....I hope what you've got in store for us is unique, has its own personality, and again is striking to see on the road.
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Old 03-14-2014, 05:06 PM   #96
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Looks like hell in pictures. Sometimes it happens that way. Some look better in pictures an some look better in person.
Saw the 2015 at an auto show last weekend. It was a BAMF. I would not be ashamed to own one of those.
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Old 03-14-2014, 06:14 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
You might not be far off, but if GM uses the same length chassis as the ATS, then I feel a bit more optimistic than that. If they use a longer chasis, something between ATS and the CTS (since the Alpha platform is not static in size) then it could weigh more.

The ATS V6 weighs around 3,450 lbs...and I think that includes the goodies like MRC suspension and maybe even better brakes than a V6 Camaro. Now one would think a Camaro based on the same chasis would weigh less, due to things like less sound insulation, and less technology and less high end materials on the inside. So I'm going to say we could still see a V6 Camaro come in at right around 3,400 lbs give or take.

Now, the current V8 Camaro weighs between100 - 150 lbs more than a comparibly equipped V6 Camaro. Thats the engine, brakes, driveline and the whole bit. So apply that to my figure above for a 6th gen V6, and you end up right around 3,550 lbs for a 6th gen Camaro SS. So I think that coming in under 3,600, or maybe right around that mark sounds very attainable to me for the next SS.

Thats a good 250ish lbs lost, and I'm betting puts it right in the same ballpark as the 2015 Mustang GT b/c I doubt it has lost much if any weight.

Lets hope this can happen!
I think you are being too hopeful.

I believe MR is an option and I doubt GM can maintain price with a magnesium cradle. Everyone says "get rid of that Cadillac stuff and you'll save even more weight". Problem is some of that "Cadilac stuff" is premium light weight materials that you can afford at $$34,000 but not at $25,0000.

As usual I hope I'm wrong.

No one is talking about wheels. The largest wheel on the ATS is 18". Larger wheels will add mass and create more load into the body structure requiring more mass.

If we get the Alpha based car everyone wants and there is no 4 cylinder as all the haters are hoping, I think 3500 pounds for a V6 would be a great achievement. A V8 weighs more than a 6, needs a bigger radiator a bigger transmission a stronger driveshaft stronger rear axle.

Also name anything not optional on an ATS that you wouldn't expect on your Camaro. There isn't much these days.
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Old 03-14-2014, 07:19 PM   #98
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Comment on KMPrenger post

Quote: " Ford recently released some early sketches of the 2015 Mustang before the final form came to be, and I have to admit it looks pretty killer compared
to what we got in the end."

I think the sketches make the opposite point. The '15 Mustang is true to the design facets of the sketches. I think Ford hit the right note. The "killer theme"
in car design can wear thin. This new Mustang will look fine on SCCA tracks in performance trims. It is also a design that is not out of place at a Country Club,
a theater drive way, a University campus, or any civil venue. Not everyone is a transformer hardon. Never saw the movie, did see it make the top ten worst movies list.

Ford has 50 years of enviable pony program experience and they have done it again.
Comparing the pics: they eyepoint in the drawing is on the ground-looking straight in the tail pipe.
The eyepoint in the pic is up at roof height. Move it to the ground, you get the wider lower aspect of the sketch.
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