[DC5]

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

It's well known and pointed out in every single thread like this but literally nobody here reads it or retains it, but the difference is because the camaro does very little fleet sales and mustang and challenger do a huge amount. There are multiple news stories and articles on the subject.

And nobody will read that either. So now lets have another 5 page thread with people crying the Camaro is going to die and it's not selling and blah blah..

Post of the year right here, folks! I couldn't have said it better myself.

[motorhead]

I find it funny that when the Camaro was winning the sales race most of this community boasted the importance of these sells numbers. Now we are supposed to say they dont matter? Okay kid.

Anyhow, it really comes down to if the car is worth the effort to GM. Time will tell because none of us really know the real facts. I predict the 19 sales wil be way less than even 18. I dont know a single person outside of this forum that likes them. I see more and more Challengers everyday around here. I know when Im out in the Hellcat, I get a lot more attention than when Im out in the ZL1. They dont care that the ZL1 is more refined and over all a better performer. Fiat has done their homework in keeping an old design relevant and appealing. It proves that you dont have to be the best when it comes to numbers. GM is more concerned with the track and performace numbers than what people really want in a street performace car that mostly never sees a track outside of a few. I can tell you after months of owning a ZL1 and a Hellcat, I appreciate what the ZL1 can do, but the Hellcat is a nicer daily driver.

[Ray-J]

People the Camaro is way more expensive than the Mustang or Challenger. It also does not have the rebates the other two often have. I know I got my 17 Mustang for 21K and still it was not the best I could have done. Your never going to see a Camaro for that price. My plans were to get another Mustang, Eco, this time and it was going to cost me around 23K. Again cheaper!

[18LTLoveIt]

Originally Posted by rocknss

Yep, I travel for my job too and I see way more Challengers and Mustangs than Camaros.

Chevy said on 2016 model release they'd have less of a Camaro fleet in rental companies.

[18LTLoveIt]

Let's also be clear 18 to 24,000 wouldn't make rental fleet difference.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by 90503

Impala's volume on a platform that surely was long ago paid for and likely still profitable, was built in two plants, outsold all Cadillacs and Camaros, yet it was discontinued. Go figure.

True, but they are axing the CT6 and that was the only car on Omega. The CT5 and Camaro need each other to stay alive.

Originally Posted by Number 3

The big down to fleet sales is it destroys residual values. Bad residuals hurt lease pricing. And when you want to trade in for a new car it is important to have a higher residual. Both of these hurt sales. This is the singular reason why GM brought the Chevy Captiva SUV to market. Rental sales only and to protect Equinox residuals.

So there are a few good things, but they are pretty much offset by having rental versions of your car competing in the used market at deep discount prices.

But aren't the residual values of the car already bad? or is it the residual that much different from resale value?

Originally Posted by Number 3

For historical reference, 2002 Camaro sales were 42,000 units. 2003? ZERO

Camaro is alive at least partially because the Alpha platform and LGR need the volume. If Cadillac were to drop Alpha sedans then Camaro alone wouldn't be able to support LGR and the car would again be at risk. It would essentially be a Corvette and require Corvette prices.

All hail to the Cadillac CT5

This ^ CT5 and Camaro need each other to survive. How much did omega cost GM to develop and now the only car that was on it is gone after 3 model years.

[CoolbreezeNJ]

Originally Posted by MackSteelPrivateEye

Maybe the should go back to fleet sales. A sell is a sell. Stopping fleet sales was dumb. What better way to test drive a Camaro than to be able to drive one for a few days. Who made that dumb decision?

You don't know how they are bid and what the actual price is. I suspect they are bid in what is called a "Reverse Auction". Both vendors and suppliers get on a web site and put up a price. Many times this means taking a loss on per unit sales. Mostly this is making the cars commodities and nobody makes much money on commodities. The difference is if you think via volume from suppliers that you can make up for the loss on per unit prices.

An alternative approach is to make a better product and keep your margins. Sitting where I am the Camaro is the better product at least in the V8 realms. I suspect the Mustang Eco-Boost could dust the V6 Camaro yet it still can't out handle it. I see no reason at all to buy a V6 Challenger. Challenger is a pig and it should really show up in the V6 Version.

[Emoto]

Originally Posted by CoolbreezeNJ

You don't know how they are bid and what the actual price is. I suspect they are bid in what is called a "Reverse Auction". Both vendors and suppliers get on a web site and put up a price. Many times this means taking a loss on per unit sales. Mostly this is making the cars commodities and nobody makes much money on commodities. The difference is if you think via volume from suppliers that you can make up for the loss on per unit prices.

An alternative approach is to make a better product and keep your margins. Sitting where I am the Camaro is the better product at least in the V8 realms. I suspect the Mustang Eco-Boost could dust the V6 Camaro yet it still can't out handle it. I see no reason at all to buy a V6 Challenger. Challenger is a pig and it should really show up in the V6 Version.

Wow, what a way to run a business!

[GroundhogSS]

We talk about advertising but Chevy is obviously doing it wrong when even Progressive Insurance makes fun of their commercials. Have you seen the one where it starts out with "Real actors, not people"? Then the girl takes them into a big room with large doors for another room where you would expect to see some cars displayed but there's just a computer to use in comparing insurance. The parallels are funny.






Edit: Progressive, not GEICO

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

I don't know why people binch about a small back seat and narrow trunk...its not a family car. Its a sporty Coupe, Hi performance coupe. Its beautiful car styling wise. Classic Coke Bottle shape. Its what we all asked for and what we got so why are people now nitpicking. The reason sales are low is because Chevy makes stupid decisions like not advertising and believing people will beat a path to its door. And some people don't even know what a Camaro is....some don't know they are back in production. Chevy has made absolutely no attempt to correct that. Its a nice car but GM has stupid upper management who should be managing a Burger King not an Auto Manufacturing outfit.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by CoolbreezeNJ

You don't know how they are bid and what the actual price is. I suspect they are bid in what is called a "Reverse Auction". Both vendors and suppliers get on a web site and put up a price. Many times this means taking a loss on per unit sales. Mostly this is making the cars commodities and nobody makes much money on commodities. The difference is if you think via volume from suppliers that you can make up for the loss on per unit prices.

An alternative approach is to make a better product and keep your margins. Sitting where I am the Camaro is the better product at least in the V8 realms. I suspect the Mustang Eco-Boost could dust the V6 Camaro yet it still can't out handle it. I see no reason at all to buy a V6 Challenger. Challenger is a pig and it should really show up in the V6 Version.

The V6 Challenger may be a pig, but its a good looking Pig. I bet many go in looking at a V8 and end up leaving with a V6 because its what they can afford. So many V6 Challengers out there, so they are selling. The V8 SRTs and Hellcats get them in the door as the V8s are highly promoted. Dodge has the coolest performance ads on TV. Many drive the V6 but pretend they are in a Hellcat. I have had V6s pull up next to and try and edge me on but I look over and see know V8 badging and let them go...bottom line is they are at least Performance car wannabees. Maybe their next car is a V8 Challenger.

[Stex]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

the Challenger's size is what a Chevelle or large mid size muscle car was than a pony car like the Camaro and Mustang. Still don't recall the last time i saw anyone in the backseat of one.

60-70s Chevelle, GTO /Lemans and Buick version were all bigger than the current Challenger but weighed way less.

[AZCamaroFan]

yes i just looked it up. It's way heavier, but the length is as close as i thought, just a few shorter than a 70 chevelle. Where as the Camaro and Mustang are only a couple inches longer than their 60s relatives, fully ten inches shorter than a Challenger.

[Stex]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

yes i just looked it up. It's way heavier, but the length is as close as i thought, just a few shorter than a 70 chevelle. Where as the Camaro and Mustang are only a couple inches longer than their 60s relatives, fully ten inches shorter than a Challenger.

Look up the 64-67 gtos, ss, etc, bigger than the 70s...Drove them all, new. Cannot tell you how much fun they were. Big TQ, no nannies...What's the wheel base on the current Chal? (found it 116.2", gives a good ride, not good for track) It was 115" on the 67 Goat....over all length 205.6" on the 67 goat. They were also taller...