08-23-2021, 05:49 PM | #15 | |
Drives: 19 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE Shock Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: BC, Canada
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And focusing on that 3.6% of engine power difference doesn't make much sense when you could easily argue more about the moment of inertia of a bigger wheel/tire combo. A bigger tire will shift the mass towards the outside of the rim so it takes more to get it to accelerate angularly. And the moment of inertia is correlated to the distance of the mass to the centre squared, so yeah, shifting that mass to the outside isn't smart from that point of view. Or if you are lazy, just use two words: unsprung mass. More is bad. There you go. BTW SC3 is great for a dual-duty DD-track tire. There is definitely stickier stuff out there, but in terms of value, I'd argue that SC3 is definitely up there. In general, I agree with Idaho here. That supercharged engine will have to worry about traction long, long before it has to worry about a slight drop in torque or a bit of increase in the moment of inertia of the wheel/tire combo. That's unless you somehow make a mid-engine or AWD Camaro, anyway.
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2019 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE M6 Shock GM Performance Intake and that's it, because driver mods before car mods Past: 2009 Mazda RX-8 GT M6 Velocity Red Mica (Sold) 2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z51 2LT M7 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat (Flood totaled) |
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08-23-2021, 11:07 PM | #16 | ||||||
Drives: Chevrolet SS 1LE Join Date: Oct 2019
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But you'd be way faster going a lot steeper and using most of 4th gear too. So for instance, a 4.55 rear gear would get you 118mph and a much shorter time because you'd get a lot more average power output through the run than with just three gears used. If you supercharge the LT1, you probably want 4.11s so you can use most of 4th for a 130mph top speed. But with the stock 3.73, top speed in 4th is 144mph - way faster than you'll be going through the traps. So you definitely don't want taller tires with stock gears! As noted above, with a supercharger and the A10 you also don't want to go taller because you can't use all of 6th as it is. Ideally you'd shorten the final drive to 2.95 or 3.07 so you could really wind out 6th through the lights. With 6 gears and the very fast shifting of that transmission, that engine could be held very close to peak-power through the whole run. Quote:
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For example, if he used Mickey Thompson ET Street tires in 325/35/18 on 18x11 wheels he'd probably double the grip he has on the stock all-seasons...literally. That tire happens to be about 3/4" shorter than the stock tire. With the 6sp manual it would give him 139mpoh in 4th gear, so he'd probably use most of that (after all the motor upgrades) which would be great. With the A10 (the OP never told which he has), he'd get 143mph in 6th, which is pretty good. With either transmission, you wouldn't want a taller tire for quarter-mile performance.
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Matt Miller
2020 SS 1LE |
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08-23-2021, 11:52 PM | #17 | |
Drives: 19 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE Shock Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: BC, Canada
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But yeah, dedicated drag radials will likely solve the issue without the need to step up in the tire size. I just don't know if OP is going that far. And here is something else to watch out for: if you go for drag radial, you might want to take a look at the strength of the rear diff and the half shafts coming out of it. My friend with a Hellcat Charger told me that there is a reason why Dodge didn't put very sticky tires on Hellcats. It's much better for you to burn the tires than break the diff or the shafts, as some people do indeed break their diff or shafts after switching to drag radials at the drag strip with their Hellcat.
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2019 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE M6 Shock GM Performance Intake and that's it, because driver mods before car mods Past: 2009 Mazda RX-8 GT M6 Velocity Red Mica (Sold) 2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z51 2LT M7 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat (Flood totaled) |
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08-24-2021, 03:38 PM | #18 | |
Drives: 2017 Camaro 1SS Join Date: Aug 2016
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08-25-2021, 09:19 AM | #19 | |
Drives: 2021 LT1 6spd Join Date: Nov 2020
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08-25-2021, 07:51 PM | #20 | |
Drives: Chevrolet SS 1LE Join Date: Oct 2019
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Going with wider tires (increasing the contact patch size) of the same compound will help grip, but not as much. The reason is found in the basic formula for friction force: Fn x u, where Fn is is the normal force (load) and u is the coefficient of friction. if the coefficient remains constant, then friction force increase with the load normalize to contact patch area (PSI), and it doesn't matter how wide the contact patch is: the friction force (grip) will be the same. However, with tires, the coefficient of friction actually drops as load increases, which is the only reason that wider tires (or taller - anything that increases the area of the contact patch) improves grip. It's also the only reason that weight transfer during braking or cornering is a bad thing. Anyway, the thing is that the coefficient of friction rises a little as load decreases, but not as much as improving the rubber compound will increase the u.
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Matt Miller
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08-26-2021, 08:28 AM | #21 | ||
Drives: 2021 LT1 6spd Join Date: Nov 2020
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08-26-2021, 09:37 AM | #22 | |
Drives: 2018 Camaro 2SS A8 Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: East Tennessee
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2018 Camaro 2SS — G7E MX0 NPP F55 IO6
735 rwhp | 665 rwtq Magnuson TVS 2300 80mm pulley | Kooks 1 7/8" LT headers | JRE smooth idle terminator cam | LT4 FS & injectors | TSP forged pistons & rods JMS PowerMAX | DSX flex fuel kit | Roto-Fab CAI | Soler 95mm LT5 TB | 1LE wheels | 1LE brakes | BMR rear cradle lockout | JRE custom tune 1100 - 1/30/18 | 2000 - 1/31/18 3000 - 2/06/18 TPW 2/26/18 3400 - 2/19/18 | 3800 - 2/26/18 4300 - 2/27/18 | 4B00 - 3/01/18 4200 - 3/05/18 | 4800 - 3/14/18 5000 - 3/16/18 | 6000 - 3/19/18 |
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08-26-2021, 10:25 AM | #23 | |
Drives: 2021 LT1 6spd Join Date: Nov 2020
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The stock all seasons are brutal in the rain though, tirerack has them rated well for wet, but that doesn't indicate actual performance down here in the real world.
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08-26-2021, 08:49 PM | #24 |
Drives: Chevrolet SS 1LE Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: St. Charles, MO
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I agree with everything arpad wrote. I have been daily-driving my SS 1LE on base model 18x8.5 with 245/50/18 Toyo Versados, so I understand what you mean about bad grip (even the OE all-seasons on the LT1 cars are probably a lot better than these POS Toyos!). I think Florida is the perfect environment for the PS4 or ECS. They are good enough in the rain that many autocrossers use them as rain tires, and they have great grip down to freezing. They aren't good for ice and snow, but...Florida. For sizes, any easy upgrade would be to SS wheel and tire sizes. There's not really any reason you couldn't go to SS 1LE wheel and tire sizes, except for cost. But the PS4 or ECS in SS Camaro sizes will be a massive improvement in grip for you.
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2020 SS 1LE |
08-29-2021, 07:19 PM | #25 |
Drives: Camaro LT1 Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Texas
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Yo guys, I'm glad my thread gained some traction and we're having a conversation. I'm going to take everything that everyone has said into consideration, including what the user said above about what my goals are for the car.
I've read through all the comments but I'm going to re-read through everything you guys said and do some research to truly understand where to go from here, but I'm glad you guys are sharing your knowledge. |
09-02-2021, 11:25 AM | #26 |
retired badass
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I have two Camaro’s and personally I’ve built both in reverse order. Suspension equals traction I don’t care what wheels and tires you throw at a car. The stock suspension is just ok. Brakes. Then tranny then engine.
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2016 2SS M6 Black
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09-05-2021, 09:25 PM | #27 |
Drives: 2018 1SS Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: MA
Posts: 300
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Suspension equals feel, precision, and stability, not traction. Tires equal traction. The suspension can help the tires maintain traction or thwart it (body roll, etc.), but the tires do the sticking since they are the only part in contact with the pavement. They do all work together though, and they work in concert. Understanding what you want the car to do is the first step.
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09-06-2021, 10:04 AM | #28 | |
retired badass
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2016 2SS M6 Black
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