[G2K]

After building my engine. I now find the need of upgrading the sound of the interior. I read Msquare post and also read his stuff on audiofrogs FB group and seemed like good data BUT I really wasnt looking forward to spend 600-700 specially only dash and doors (fazing out the rear panels is what he did) but my brain doesn't go with having speakers there and not using them.

Reading around I came across the Kenwood which provides kind of a straight swap and considering their price range I could have all 6 speakers (dash, door and rear panel) in my car upgraded for the price of just the door audiofrogs.

All the things Msquare requirements, were my same requirements but on a lower budget. This means keeping OEM wiring, not add ton of amps or subs for weight savings (even tho now at 1K HP im kinda reconsidering that) but there's still the vibration issue from having a sub (my meth tank/pump are in the trunk, scared vibrations would damage something on the long run)

So like stated before I went with Kenwood eXcelon KFC-KP6902C which comes with dash 2.75 and 6x9 woofers just like oem and for the rears I choose their 6.5 coaxials KFC-X174

The sound of the 1LE has always been one of the draw backs specially coming from a VW with the fender audio system. However, to me it wasn't THAT BAD considering what it was so I never bothered changing anything. Being an active member of the forum I read lots of info here but honestly never understood the whole DSP, LOC vs just putting an amp and speakers like back in the day... its very confusing for me.

As of today I've only installed the dash speakers (waiting on the speaker adaptors for the door/rears) The sound quality is already night and day HOWEVER I did find out what people said in other posts about volume being the same... again its not THAT BAD actually its already better with just the dash but I'm looking for info If indeed I HAVE to go the amp route....

Thanks for reading thus far.... now for the actual questions:

• Do I NEED a DSP if I go with an amp?

• Since I'll have 6 speakers do I need a 4,6 channel or 5,7 Channel if I decided to go with a sub?

• Are the dash speakers individual from the doors? because when I fade to the top left I still hear both dash and door. So it confuses me in knowing if this is would take 1 channel or 2 channels on the amp (remember I want keep factory wiring)

• If I add a sub can I use the rear shelf for that? What can I put there, 8" subs? Just really trying to stay away of putting a box in the trunk

[Plasar]

G2K:

• Welcome and good luck on your journey to better sound.
• I'd start by reviewing this recent thread which addresses some of your questions.
• Post back here if it helps or you have more questions than before!

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=592443

[Zr8000]

Use a jl fix to convert the sound into a clean, consistent signal for the amp to use. It’s does some things a dsp does and is way better than a line out. It’s about 1/2 the cost of a dsp. A line out is nothing more than a device that converts the signal to a pre out and nothing more. A dsp will process the sound making the signal consistent, you can tell each channel what you want it to do, sum channels, eq the speakers, set time delays, set cross over points, the list goes on

[Zr8000]

If you are not running a big sub use a 5 channel amp like the alpine type r. It has 4 speaker out puts and 1 for the sub

[deathbyc4]

having a DSP is always the way to go if you can. I picked up an audiocontrol d-6.1200 on ebay for 760 (normally 1100). one amp with dsp and 6 channels.

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by G2K

After building my engine. I now find the need of upgrading the sound of the interior. I read Msquare post and also read his stuff on audiofrogs FB group and seemed like good data BUT I really wasnt looking forward to spend 600-700 specially only dash and doors (fazing out the rear panels is what he did) but my brain doesn't go with having speakers there and not using them.

Reading around I came across the Kenwood which provides kind of a straight swap and considering their price range I could have all 6 speakers (dash, door and rear panel) in my car upgraded for the price of just the door audiofrogs.

I understand, and I think the Kenwood 2.5/6x9 is probably a good budget alternative to the AFs I used. They are less sensitive than the AFs, so may not be as loud with stock power.

As of today I've only installed the dash speakers (waiting on the speaker adaptors for the door/rears) The sound quality is already night and day

If you're just replacing speakers (no amp or anything else), then the dash speakers will make the biggest difference in sound quality.

Do I NEED a DSP if I go with an amp?

Not necessarily. However, it makes a real difference in properly integrating the sound from the doors and dash with each other. The KEY180.4 I used is cheap and very automatic, so it's an easy recommendation because it includes amp, EQ, time delay, and crossover functions (i.e. DSP) in one cheap box.

Since I'll have 6 speakers do I need a 4,6 channel or 5,7 Channel if I decided to go with a sub?

Are the dash speakers individual from the doors? because when I fade to the top left I still hear both dash and door. So it confuses me in knowing if this is would take 1 channel or 2 channels on the amp (remember I want keep factory wiring)

So I'll answer the bottom one first: the door and dash speakers are set up at the factory as component speakers, and are just two front channels (left and right), not four. The only "crossover" is a high-pass capacitor in line with the factory dash speaker (you hopefully used the caps that came with the Kenwoods). The rear speakers are on their own channels. So from the factory, you have a four-channel system

You can keep it like that and run a four-channel amp to the front door and dash speakers (front channels) and the rear speakers (rear channels). That would be easiest. If you run six channels, the only useful reason to do that would be to "biamp" the fronts with an active crossover between the door and dash speakers. The latter will sound somewhat better on its own, but probably will also come with the DSP stuff too.

If I add a sub can I use the rear shelf for that? What can I put there, 8" subs? Just really trying to stay away of putting a box in the trunk.

Yeah, that should work. You need to look specifically for subs that are meant to work in free-air (or "infinite baffle") setups, not in any kind of box. I know AF makes one (GS8ND), but there may also be cheaper ones out there. I don't know. You'll need a sub amp, of course. It happens that Kicker's KEY500.1 is made for this kind of thing and contains the low-pass and EQ function. It should be able to handle two 8" subs wired in parallel.

[G2K]

Thanks Matt for such great detail and clearing up my doubt about the front. I saw Kenwood also makes a dsp integrated 5 channel amp. So maybe this could work and I can also put those 8” in the rear deck. Whenever I come around with the $$ for that.

In other order today I installed 6x9 on the door. Everything was literally plug and play. All i had to order was the speaker connectors and everything bolted on perfectly. The kenwoods even came with the foams to put around the speaker, behind the adaptor etc. i took some sound baffle foam from my friends gaming room and put it behind the speaker.

Again quality is there but more and more I see the need of an amp. SMH ill lurk around for the kicker while Ill think where to install since I have my meth tank in the trunk so thats not an option. And probably since im already doing an amp ill throw in that 8”. So might look into 5 channel with dsp like the kenwood

[G2K]

Tomorrow ill install the 6.5” since in taking it apart to install my red seat belts. Looking forward to hear the final product. But seeing how its going i doubt the rear will make it much better. Now I see why you only did the fronts.

[SomeGeoffGuy]

Yea, you are going to need some power - those Kenwood's have sensitivity ratings in the mid 80's. You'll be down about 10 dB from the stock speakers.

-Geoff

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by G2K

Again quality is there but more and more I see the need of an amp. SMH ill lurk around for the kicker while Ill think where to install since I have my meth tank in the trunk so thats not an option. And probably since im already doing an amp ill throw in that 8”. So might look into 5 channel with dsp like the kenwood

One place I considered for the little amp I used was in the trunk underneath the rear package shelf - up under where the rear deck speakers go. There probably some good ways to mount smaller amp up there without interfering with other additions in the trunk.

[G2K]

Originally Posted by Msquared

One place I considered for the little amp I used was in the trunk underneath the rear package shelf - up under where the rear deck speakers go. There probably some good ways to mount smaller amp up there without interfering with other additions in the trunk.

So I took the weekend to install the rest of speakers and my red seat belts. So happy with how it came out. HOWEVER, I definitely still feel the need of more volume. Quality... great... but just not loud enough.... I have to literally put the radio at 90% volume... luckily due to the upgraded speakers I have no distortion but this car is just too loud...

So looking into the next steps since it looks like I'll need an amp regardless.. I might as well say F-it and put a sub either 2 8"s on the rear shelf.

So, what do you guys think of this below:
https://www.kenwood.com/usa/car/excelon/x802-5/
vs. the 2 kicker keys (for example)

If I go with the Kenwood to keep it all with the same name brand and 1 amp instead of 2. What would I need to run that amp? The DIY5 harness and a LOC, would that be enough? Or like one of those Audicontrol DSP things?

Sorry for the dumb questions... I've installed stereos before but its been a while and also it was on older cars without all these dsps, locs etc etc

In terms of space, If I go with the Kicker KEYS I actually removed my old JMS Boost-A-pump for the rear driver side panel in the trunk and I think those little amps could fit there... I've haven't seen them in person to see how small they are in reality but based on the pics from other forums they look tiny.

[SomeGeoffGuy]

Originally Posted by Msquared

So I'll answer the bottom one first: the door and dash speakers are set up at the factory as component speakers, and are just two front channels (left and right), not four. The only "crossover" is a high-pass capacitor in line with the factory dash speaker (you hopefully used the caps that came with the Kenwoods). The rear speakers are on their own channels. So from the factory, you have a four-channel system

Msquared, I keep re-reading this trying to figure out what to use for a signal processor. So the signal that goes to the door mount 6x9's is a full range signal? I am concerned that it might be different on the Bose cars. The reason I am asking is that I am thinking of doing a system like this:

- Factory Bose amp output to Audio Control LC1i - use the door mount 6x9 signal, convert the full range signal to RCA out.
- LC1i RCA output into Rockford Fosgate Prime 750X1 (or similar). Use this to power the sub and run the crossover.
- From pass-through on RF amp to stereo amp TBD - run a set of component speakers in the door and dash.

I always figure simpler is better, I just didn't know if the door signal is full range or not. If it isn't, the system gets more complicated, but if it is full range, then I don't need to spend $500 on converting the signal, I can spend $80 and save the difference for amps and speakers!

Thank you.

-Geoff

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by G2K

So looking into the next steps since it looks like I'll need an amp regardless.. I might as well say F-it and put a sub either 2 8"s on the rear shelf.

So, what do you guys think of this below:
https://www.kenwood.com/usa/car/excelon/x802-5/
vs. the 2 kicker keys (for example)

If I go with the Kenwood to keep it all with the same name brand and 1 amp instead of 2. What would I need to run that amp? The DIY5 harness and a LOC, would that be enough? Or like one of those Audicontrol DSP things?

Looking at the specs on that Kenwood amp, it says it takes speaker-level inputs. Therefore you would not need the LOC: you can just run the factory speaker outputs right into the amp (it may have a setting that has to be changed for that). I think it's saying the sub channel has a low-pass filter and the other four channels have a high-pass filter, so you're covered there. You may or may not want the optional subwoofer volume control. You might be fine just using the stock treble/mid/bass EQ. I would think you'd want the extra control, though, since it's only going to control the sub - and then use the stock 3-band EQ for the door and dash settings.

DSP is another matter entirely: you don't have it now and you don't have to add it just to add an amp and sub. I can't advise you very well on it, because I took the easy route and got the Kicker amp with all of that built in and automated. I can tell you it makes a real difference in sound quality, but I'd be starting from square one if I had to set up that box and tune it myself!

Originally Posted by SomeGeoffGuy

Msquared, I keep re-reading this trying to figure out what to use for a signal processor. So the signal that goes to the door mount 6x9's is a full range signal? I am concerned that it might be different on the Bose cars.

In the non-Bose cars the 6x9 door speakers definitely get a full-range signal, as do the dash speakers (they have the high-pass cap on the speaker terminals to filter out lower frequencies). In the Bose, I don't know. I suspect they don't. They are different speakers and reportedly are only 2-ohm loads, and knowing Bose I'm guessing they do a lot of EQ to optimize the cheap drivers for a certain range. I have no idea if you can use the Bose amp outputs into that LC1i successfully or not. Sorry. I'd suggest finding some threads specifically on upgrading the Bose system.

[G2K]

Almost purchased 2 used KEy 200.4 and 500.1 for a steal but someone got to it first.. bummer... so plan is still to get the kenwood... now for the last part...

Anyone have any pics of rear deck mounted subs... as Mquared suggestion I know the audiofrogs are infinite baffle... I also learned the kicker CompR are also like this.

Has anyone mounted subs on the rear deck? what size as the 8" wont fit without cutting or is there an adaptor that I don't know about?

Any pics, links... any help appreciated.