[N Camarolina]

It's not like you are thinking in terms of stepwise progression.

Comp mode is an older program before PTM was ever available. It's simply a different variation of which nannies are turned on vs off. In the version installed on the Gen6 Camaro, Comp mode is supposedly stability control = on, traction control = totally turned off. And the level of stability control here is supposedly equal to the "stability lite" that you have with PTM Dry or Sport 1. Thus, you'll have your corner entry to apex managed if you are super aggressive with trail breaking, but the corner exit you'll easily be able to make the tail step out under power because you have full throttle control (and apparently more than the stability control can correct if you really use too much throttle).

I think most of the guys who track on this forum use PTM Race rather than Comp because they have gotten to a point where they no longer need stability control. They elect to use the traction control level of PTM Race rather than "all nannies off" because the traction control algorithm in PTM Race is apparently better than most humans at determining the optimal torque as you exit a corner and roll into the throttle to track out.

I guess if you want more slip angle on corner exit than PTM Race is allowing you, that's the point where you will want to try "all nannies off."

[5.M0NSTER]

Thanks Camarolina. That makes a lot more sense now. I was imaging this progression, but didn’t realize they are different strategies developed at various points in time. Appreciate the explanation!

[MakCamaro]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

It's not like you are thinking in terms of stepwise progression.

Comp mode is an older program before PTM was ever available. It's simply a different variation of which nannies are turned on vs off. In the version installed on the Gen6 Camaro, Comp mode is supposedly stability control = on, traction control = totally turned off. And the level of stability control here is supposedly equal to the "stability lite" that you have with PTM Dry or Sport 1. Thus, you'll have your corner entry to apex managed if you are super aggressive with trail breaking, but the corner exit you'll easily be able to make the tail step out under power because you have full throttle control (and apparently more than the stability control can correct if you really use too much throttle).

I think most of the guys who track on this forum use PTM Race rather than Comp because they have gotten to a point where they no longer need stability control. They elect to use the traction control level of PTM Race rather than "all nannies off" because the traction control algorithm in PTM Race is apparently better than most humans at determining the optimal torque as you exit a corner and roll into the throttle to track out.

I guess if you want more slip angle on corner exit than PTM Race is allowing you, that's the point where you will want to try "all nannies off."

Great explanation.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Thanks Camarolina. That makes a lot more sense now. I was imaging this progression, but didn’t realize they are different strategies developed at various points in time. Appreciate the explanation!

Competitive Mode is indeed an old program and likely still included as an option, as many like it on a drag strip.
However, there is absolutely nothing that it has over the PTM options on a road course.

As an aside, if your experience is approx 3 days per season, over 7 seasons, you are obviously not a beginner, but keep in mind it is virtually impossible to learn how to read/feel car's limits in a reliable fashion. What i mean by that, is driving a car at 10/10ths, going over the limit (either over or understeer) and then having sufficient unconscious/automatic skill level to bring it back safely and successfully.

This is what makes PTM such a great system: it offers a superbly designed progression of assistance levels, from Dry to Race. Not many cars offer this level of customization - not even close!

Happy motoring and cheers!

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

It's not like you are thinking in terms of stepwise progression.

Comp mode is an older program before PTM was ever available. It's simply a different variation of which nannies are turned on vs off. In the version installed on the Gen6 Camaro, Comp mode is supposedly stability control = on, traction control = totally turned off. And the level of stability control here is supposedly equal to the "stability lite" that you have with PTM Dry or Sport 1. Thus, you'll have your corner entry to apex managed if you are super aggressive with trail breaking, but the corner exit you'll easily be able to make the tail step out under power because you have full throttle control (and apparently more than the stability control can correct if you really use too much throttle).

I think most of the guys who track on this forum use PTM Race rather than Comp because they have gotten to a point where they no longer need stability control. They elect to use the traction control level of PTM Race rather than "all nannies off" because the traction control algorithm in PTM Race is apparently better than most humans at determining the optimal torque as you exit a corner and roll into the throttle to track out.

I guess if you want more slip angle on corner exit than PTM Race is allowing you, that's the point where you will want to try "all nannies off."

Superbly put!

One thing I'd offer is this: PTM Race does not manage car's lateral slip angles, but rather level of tire over slip under acceleration. Of course, one can lead to another
But it is also important to understand, that it can be relatively easy to hang the rear end out, especially in high speed corners, where there is already much momentum involved. And since PTM Race has no Stabilitrack, it is completely up to a driver to correct such events.

Cheers!

[JSH]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Superbly put!

One thing I'd offer is this: PTM Race does not manage car's lateral slip angles, but rather level of tire over slip under acceleration. Of course, one can lead to another
But it is also important to understand, that it can be relatively easy to hang the rear end out, especially in high speed corners, where there is already much momentum involved. And since PTM Race has no Stabilitrack, it is completely up to a driver to correct such events.

Cheers!

Are any elements of PTM or competitive mode engageable when driving the car in Manual?

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by JSH

Are any elements of PTM or competitive mode engageable when driving the car in Manual?

Sorry, but i do not understand your question.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Sorry, but i do not understand your question.

If you're in either competitive mode or PTM and then pull the shifter into manual, do all of the respective performance features remain activated?

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Competitive Mode is indeed an old program and likely still included as an option, as many like it on a drag strip.
However, there is absolutely nothing that it has over the PTM options on a road course.

As an aside, if your experience is approx 3 days per season, over 7 seasons, you are obviously not a beginner, but keep in mind it is virtually impossible to learn how to read/feel car's limits in a reliable fashion. What i mean by that, is driving a car at 10/10ths, going over the limit (either over or understeer) and then having sufficient unconscious/automatic skill level to bring it back safely and successfully.

This is what makes PTM such a great system: it offers a superbly designed progression of assistance levels, from Dry to Race. Not many cars offer this level of customization - not even close!

Happy motoring and cheers!

Good points, and it's true, more seat time is always better. And progressive assist system is better than binary.

I've had a lot of driving instruction in the past and spent at lot of my professional working time behind the wheel of performance cars, developing chassis stability features, prior to getting my own car and doing HPDEs for fun.

So I'm able to work my way up to 9/10 or 10/10 quickly, and over the last 3 years focused on Nurburgring lap times. I had a goal of being under 7:55 minutes because if one can be fast there, they can be fast anywhere. In the end I exceeded my life goal by a few seconds, which was a great reward for all the time and money invested in it. Had lots of close calls pushing past the limit along the way. Makes for good lough now tho!

Here are some good slides. After enough laps some of these became expected, and I didn't even lift for them anymore. Except for the first one, that one almost bit hard.

Good advice though, and happy motoring and more driver mod to us all

[JSH]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Sorry, but i do not understand your question.

Are any elements of PTM or competitive mode engageable when driving the car in Manual with or w/o traction control?

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by JSH

Are any elements of PTM or competitive mode engageable when driving the car in Manual with or w/o traction control?

I would guess so, but not sure. Mine is a 6 Speed manual.

You can find out pretty easy. Go into Track mode, and push the Traction button twice within 1-2s. You don't want to double click, just push, and push again. If you see PTM display in the guage central screen with options for Wet, Dry, Sport 1, Sport 2 and RACE, you got them all.

[Dabjbr]

Just wanted to give a huge thanks for this thread. Even after owning the car for nearly a year and attending 6 track days, I still find myself reading this post over again and learning more. Case in point…

Last week, I visited my home track. I wasn’t feeling great and after the 3rd session, I decided to pack it up. I still improved my time by 1.5 seconds but While on track, I didn’t feel confident. I simply chalked it up to my senses being out of whack and not feeling at one with the car.

This morning, I was tweaking my drive modes and noticed something off. Suspension in drive mode was set to Tour instead of Auto. I do that purposely with steering but never with suspension!

I reread this post and confirmed my suspicion. Not feeling one with the car wasn’t due to feeling ill but instead accidentally driving with suspension in Tour mode while having PTM in Track/Race. I mean, those settings would probably be great for a dirt track but not ideal for my smooth road course.

Lesson relearned. .

[N Camarolina]

I don't have an A10, but assume that whether you have the transmission in full auto vs manual mode should have no bearing on the traction control and stability control settings that you use.

As to the rest of your question (PTM or comp mode .... with or w/o traction control), I don't understand your question either. I suggest you read the sticky note and the links to explain how the systems work, then read this thread again.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

I don't understand your question either.

I was thinking about how each of these settings/programs might be affected by the trans being in Auto versus Manual. I'm assuming they're not going to function exactly the same.