[HemiDave]

Originally Posted by NG329

The car (ZLE) has 650 HP. The Porsches have less and are sub 7 minutes. What the car needs is a weight reduction and maybe even a tad more downforce. Instead of 350lbs of downforce, perhaps 450lbs at 150mph. Think..... Viper ACR. Lighter and more downforce.

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

... only so much you can do with a RWD platform.

Originally Posted by CalgaryZL1

Also with increased down force, usually you need the little extra horsepower to compensate for the rolling resistance

My thought was that more HP would "compensate for the rolling resistance"(What CalgaryZL1 said) on the Rings long straight..
This would most likely resulting a higher top speed in the straights that might improve the Nurburgring time.
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**Here is what a 6th gen Camaro Engineer said when asked if the LT5 alone would have improved the ZLE RING time:**

"More power definitely helps. I'm sure it would've been able to go quicker but no clue by how much".

So this engineer, who is extremely familiar with the ZLE, says the LT5 engine would have improved the ring time, not hampered it.

Of course every track is different, but I was talking about the Nurburgring.
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On a side note: The C7 Z06 setup couldn't handle the LT4 power predictably at the limit with traction off.
I felt the engineering on it wasn't completed. The overheating on track was another example.
I would not have thrown more power at my 2016 Z06 for road course, autocross or "twisties".

Yet GM still decided to add 100 more HP in that setup with an LT5 in the C7 ZR1.
They didn't just keep the LT4 in the ZR1 and go the Viper ACR way (or the ZLE way)

The ZL1-1LE setup handles the LT4 power much better than my C7Z did.
I think there is more in it to put power down.

[JG853]

NG329 - Completely agree. There are inherent advantages and disadvantages of each platform (FE, FME, ME, RE). Anyone saying outright that a ME car is better than a FME design is a stretch. It is better in areas and worse in others as we pointed out in another thread.

Originally Posted by NG329

On paper, the specs support that. Therefore, I agree. However, in the real world, it's unfortunately not that simple. From the videos above, Landis is a better driver than I am, but I am faster in the ZLE around the same course.

I'm of the belief that you really need to be at the upper echelon of Advanced group talent to extract the performance out of the new Z06. On the other hand, you can be a complete idiot and still go quickly in a ZLE.

In that first vid, I liken it to the game we used to play as kids at the dinner table. We'd balance on two legs of the chair at the dinner table and just as we were about to topple over backwards, we'd save it. From that video, driving the Z06 is very much like that. You need to be comfortable catching that front end as it threatens to break loose time after time after time again. Nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing about that video inspires confidence in the capabilities of that car.

In all fairness, the 1:30 he ran is NOT slow. That's at the faster end of A group here. I'm focusing on the skill required to keep that car in line.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by JG853

NG329 - Completely agree. There are inherent advantages and disadvantages of each platform (FE, FME, ME, RE). Anyone saying outright that a ME car is better than a FME design is a stretch. It is better in areas and worse in others as we pointed out in another thread.

Not really, when it comes to road racing, mid engine or rear engine is as good as its gets.

[JG853]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

Not really, when it comes to road racing, mid engine or rear engine is as good as its gets.

Says who? If that is the case, why are there FME cars setting records over ME and RE cars at Road Courses?

[NG329]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

Not really, when it comes to road racing, mid engine or rear engine is as good as its gets.

I mean, I feel like ME are marginally better for street legal road cars doing straight line stuff like drag racing, but for road racing I think it can go either way. FE Corvettes have plenty of championships against ME platforms and in recent days the Garage56 Camaro was absolutely untouchable when it came to outright lap times at LeMans. Also the Camaro GT4.R won a championship as well.

I'll drink to this tho, it'll be great to see what GM comes up with when the Zora is finally released. I would hope that the Zora puts the definitive stamp on the potential of an ME platform with a real MOTOR behind it.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by JG853

Says who? If that is the case, why are there FME cars setting records over ME and RE cars at Road Courses?

Says physics. LOL. Look at all of the Nurburgring lap records, its primarily ALL mid engine or rear engine vehicles.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by NG329

I mean, I feel like ME are marginally better for street legal road cars doing straight line stuff like drag racing, but for road racing I think it can go either way. FE Corvettes have plenty of championships against ME platforms and in recent days the Garage56 Camaro was absolutely untouchable when it came to outright lap times at LeMans. Also the Camaro GT4.R won a championship as well.

I'll drink to this tho, it'll be great to see what GM comes up with when the Zora is finally released. I would hope that the Zora puts the definitive stamp on the potential of an ME platform with a real MOTOR behind it.

GM would not have evolved to mid engine in the Corvette if it was not superior, Tadge Juechter, Executive Chief Engineer for the Corvette has stated that the Corvette team has long known mid engine was superior but wasn't able to make the switch to mid engine as soon as they had hoped until the C8. Tadge has admitted that the C7 was as far as they could push the front engine platform and that's why it was time to make the switch.

[JG853]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

Says physics. LOL. Look at all of the Nurburgring lap records, its primarily ALL mid engine or rear engine vehicles.

So, Mero Ran a 6:53X segmented time on Cup2s. His obstructed lap with on cold tires was a 7:03X. He noted in interviews that he was meeting and beating his segmented time in the Front engine C7 ZR1... He also noted in interviews that if the C7 ZR1 had tires designed for the car (IE like the GT2RS - Can you say Cup2 Rs?) he would have been significantly faster. That would have made it one of, if not the fastest production car at the Ring (Non modified unlike Porsche, Nissan, etc.). How about the Dodge Viper ACR? What about those records?

At VIR - Why did a Front engine C7 ZR1 set the record on the full course? It took a McLaren Senna to beat it (Which is an awesome car)?

Again - Each platform has their advantages and disadvantages. I would think the new Mustang GT car will be pretty quick too - And Ford left that Supercharged vs NA. Does Ford not know what they are doing too? Front engine and Supercharged for a Road Couse? What are they thinking? Does Ford does not understand engineering and racing?

[NG329]

Originally Posted by JG853

So, Mero Ran a 6:53X segmented time on Cup2s. His obstructed lap with on cold tires was a 7:03X. He noted in interviews that he was meeting and beating his segmented time in the Front engine C7 ZR1... He also noted in interviews that if the C7 ZR1 had tires designed for the car (IE like the GT2RS - Can you say Cup2 Rs?) he would have been significantly faster. That would have made it one of, if not the fastest production car at the Ring (Non modified unlike Porsche, Nissan, etc.). How about the Dodge Viper ACR? What about those records?

At VIR - Why did a Front engine C7 ZR1 set the record on the full course? It took a McLaren Senna to beat it (Which is an awesome car)?

Again - Each platform has their advantages and disadvantages. I would think the new Mustang GT car will be pretty quick too - And Ford left that Supercharged vs NA. Does Ford not know what they are doing too? Front engine and Supercharged for a Road Couse? What are they thinking? Does Ford does not understand engineering and racing?

Sorry man, but the new Ford Mustang is absolute rubbish at every level. Haha

I think it was Throttlehouse that said it handles like a Challenger. Hahaha

[NG329]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

GM would not have evolved to mid engine in the Corvette if it was not superior, Tadge Juechter, Executive Chief Engineer for the Corvette has stated that the Corvette team has long known mid engine was superior but wasn't able to make the switch to mid engine as soon as they had hoped until the C8. Tadge has admitted that the C7 was as far as they could push the front engine platform and that's why it was time to make the switch.

Fair play. I’ll counter by pointing out that the AMG GT tells me that they figured out something that GM has not. …and it held the Nurburgring record.

The term Superior is a stretch. Not convinced. The data has not been definitive.

[NG329]

Originally Posted by HemiDave

My thought was that more HP would "compensate for the rolling resistance"(What CalgaryZL1 said) on the Rings long straight..
This would most likely resulting a higher top speed in the straights that might improve the Nurburgring time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**Here is what a 6th gen Camaro Engineer said when asked if the LT5 alone would have improved the ZLE RING time:**

"More power definitely helps. I'm sure it would've been able to go quicker but no clue by how much".

So this engineer, who is extremely familiar with the ZLE, says the LT5 engine would have improved the ring time, not hampered it.

Of course every track is different, but I was talking about the Nurburgring.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On a side note: The C7 Z06 setup couldn't handle the LT4 power predictably at the limit with traction off.
I felt the engineering on it wasn't completed. The overheating on track was another example.
I would not have thrown more power at my 2016 Z06 for road course, autocross or "twisties".

Yet GM still decided to add 100 more HP in that setup with an LT5 in the C7 ZR1.
They didn't just keep the LT4 in the ZR1 and go the Viper ACR way (or the ZLE way)

The ZL1-1LE setup handles the LT4 power much better than my C7Z did.
I think there is more in it to put power down.

Point taken.

However, Throwing a Mag2650 on a ZL1 makes the car more difficult to wrestle around a road course due to added weight over the front axle.

[JG853]

Originally Posted by NG329

Sorry man, but the new Ford Mustang is absolute rubbish at every level. Haha

I think it was Throttlehouse that said it handles like a Challenger. Hahaha

I saw that too - I am not sure if they were driving it the way it was meant to be driven - No offense to them, it is just a lot of power to handle. Same way they drove the C7 ZR1... Too much for them.

[HemiDave]

Originally Posted by NG329

Point taken.

However, Throwing a Mag2650 on a ZL1 makes the car more difficult to wrestle around a road course due to added weight over the front axle.

You would certainly know this.

I personally will stick with the stock power on my ZLE, just like I did with my Demon.
Not my bikes though.
My bikes are derestricted, dyno tuned and modded.
I cant keep those stock.

[NG329]

Originally Posted by JG853

I saw that too - I am not sure if they were driving it the way it was meant to be driven - No offense to them, it is just a lot of power to handle. Same way they drove the C7 ZR1... Too much for them.

Not necessarily too much power for 'them'. I would say that it's a very short track. But if we're being fair, the cars that are supposed to go fast are at the top of their list. T. Holland is a pretty good driver. He's no "Stig" but he's pretty astute behind the wheel

Would love to get Randy Pobst's comments on the new car.