[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

the current car also has IRS which the 4thgen did not have, much larger wheels and tires etc.

also , as to the other poster, it's very easy to research how much money GM makes per car. So posting whatever you want doesn't make it true.

GM isn’t going to publish their numbers, neither will dealerships. Believe none of that.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

try a Japanese brand if you really want difficult negotiations

I did. I bought my 2009 Accord EX-L V6 6 speed manual coupe brand new in May of ‘09 with ease. They had to order it because no 6 speeds in stock anywhere. I got $5000 off with little haggling. For an ordered car.

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

And making as much as we can... That's everyone's goal in life, LOL. Pot calling the kettle black.

Of course it is. That’s why I don’t play games. I’m very serious when I buy a car.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Ah but salesmen come right at you as soon as you get out of your car acting just like that. So you have to have your guard up and temper it right from the start. The buyer must own the conversation. Say little if anything at all and come prepared with an offer below what the lowest you’re willing to pay, out the door including all fees. And state that in writing.

Don’t smile, don’t engage in light hearted conversation. It’s strictly a business transaction. I drove a black 6 speed they had on the lot, and of course the salesman tried to be my buddy about how it drove and how I must have lived it. I had none of it.

Gotta play poker like you just put the deed to your house down when buying a car. It’s a lot of your heart earned money. It’s worth it to be cold and callous.

Yeah yeah, I tried to "low ball" them in the beginning, but at the same time, I was more just "whatever" about the process - if you aren't giving me a deal I want, I could buy something else. At the same time, everyone has to make some money so I keep that in mind. Keeping the lights on and such.

Also, most of my negotiation happened over texting in my case, so no BFF small talk or anything like that. With the pandemic, text/email sales will start growing so if you hate face-to-face transactions with a salesman, there you go.

Honestly, if you are that serious about your hard-earned money, buy used. Even a lightly used car is a better deal. If I really don't want to play games, I just go to a private seller. Done. No drama and better value.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Yeah yeah, I tried to "low ball" them in the beginning, but at the same time, I was more just "whatever" about the process - if you aren't giving me a deal I want, I could buy something else. At the same time, everyone has to make some money so I keep that in mind. Keeping the lights on and such.

Also, most of my negotiation happened over texting in my case, so no BFF small talk or anything like that. With the pandemic, text/email sales will start growing so if you hate face-to-face transactions with a salesman, there you go.

Honestly, if you are that serious about your hard-earned money, buy used. Even a lightly used car is a better deal. If I really don't want to play games, I just go to a private seller. Done. No drama and better value.

I would NEVER trust anyone with a used Camaro

Especially a manual

[UnknownJinX]

You could always get the car checked out before buying it.

My RX-8 and Corvette were both used. Never an issue.

Sent from toaster or something

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

You could always get the car checked out before buying it.

My RX-8 and Corvette were both used. Never an issue.

Sent from toaster or something

In order to have a car with a manual transmission appropriately checked, you would have to be ready to pay out what would amount to the cost of replacing the clutch and rebuilding the transmission. Without getting those things apart, it's nothing more than an educated guess by the mechanic.

And if you're willing to spend that to check the car out, then don't bother doing it and bank the money for when they need to be done.

My biggest concern with a used manual would be... If the car still had warranty life on it, would items be denied due to the dealership finding something in the car that was otherwise "fine" but caused by the previous owner? Was the car ever tuned (even if it was restored - dealerships can tell)?

CPO programs are a paperwork process. Yes, there are specific "minimums" that have to be met like certain amount of tire tread, but it's largely a 20 minute process to check off boxes that things "work." They also offer little in the way of additional coverage on cars overall. There is a LOT of tech in cars today, and it's really expensive to repair if it breaks because everything is intertwined. I had a Ford that was throwing errors about the ABS, forward collision system, and something about a 911 system. They traced it to a bad board on the power amp that was related to the voice recognition system. I was able to get the dealership to replace it under the CPO because I argued that it was a safety item (it disabled significant safety features). Otherwise, they would have denied it. That was something like a $1500 repair because they had to partially dismantle the rear of the car to get to the amp.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by ember1205

In order to have a car with a manual transmission appropriately checked, you would have to be ready to pay out what would amount to the cost of replacing the clutch and rebuilding the transmission. Without getting those things apart, it's nothing more than an educated guess by the mechanic.

And if you're willing to spend that to check the car out, then don't bother doing it and bank the money for when they need to be done.

My biggest concern with a used manual would be... If the car still had warranty life on it, would items be denied due to the dealership finding something in the car that was otherwise "fine" but caused by the previous owner? Was the car ever tuned (even if it was restored - dealerships can tell)?

CPO programs are a paperwork process. Yes, there are specific "minimums" that have to be met like certain amount of tire tread, but it's largely a 20 minute process to check off boxes that things "work." They also offer little in the way of additional coverage on cars overall. There is a LOT of tech in cars today, and it's really expensive to repair if it breaks because everything is intertwined. I had a Ford that was throwing errors about the ABS, forward collision system, and something about a 911 system. They traced it to a bad board on the power amp that was related to the voice recognition system. I was able to get the dealership to replace it under the CPO because I argued that it was a safety item (it disabled significant safety features). Otherwise, they would have denied it. That was something like a $1500 repair because they had to partially dismantle the rear of the car to get to the amp.

Yep, no one could possibly know the clutch and flywheel condition without taking the transmission out. Low mileage and excellent physical condition mean nothing - what if the previous owner used the car to learn how to drive stick and rode the clutch? The rest of the car could be perfect.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by ember1205

In order to have a car with a manual transmission appropriately checked, you would have to be ready to pay out what would amount to the cost of replacing the clutch and rebuilding the transmission. Without getting those things apart, it's nothing more than an educated guess by the mechanic.



And if you're willing to spend that to check the car out, then don't bother doing it and bank the money for when they need to be done.



My biggest concern with a used manual would be... If the car still had warranty life on it, would items be denied due to the dealership finding something in the car that was otherwise "fine" but caused by the previous owner? Was the car ever tuned (even if it was restored - dealerships can tell)?



CPO programs are a paperwork process. Yes, there are specific "minimums" that have to be met like certain amount of tire tread, but it's largely a 20 minute process to check off boxes that things "work." They also offer little in the way of additional coverage on cars overall. There is a LOT of tech in cars today, and it's really expensive to repair if it breaks because everything is intertwined. I had a Ford that was throwing errors about the ABS, forward collision system, and something about a 911 system. They traced it to a bad board on the power amp that was related to the voice recognition system. I was able to get the dealership to replace it under the CPO because I argued that it was a safety item (it disabled significant safety features). Otherwise, they would have denied it. That was something like a $1500 repair because they had to partially dismantle the rear of the car to get to the amp.

Welp, I can tell you that I have bought a few used manual cars, none of which needed transmission repair or clutch replacement soon after purchase. Maybe I just have very good luck?

If there is a problem with the transmission, you could have probably figured it out during test drive. Clutch is for sure trickier to check, but worst case scenario, it's a $1k~$1.5k job(RWD cars tend to actually be a bit cheaper with this one than FWD cars). If you can get a very good price on a used Camaro, it's not the end of the world to shell out a little extra for a new clutch. It's not like a $1k beater Corolla that the clutch job would effectively total the car.

Yes, it's a risk, but if someone hates the drama and really cares about their hard earned money, it's a viable option. And there are used units that have a few thousand miles on them that's still under warranty just like a new car if you are worried, but because they are used, they are still a better value.

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Yep, no one could possibly know the clutch and flywheel condition without taking the transmission out. Low mileage and excellent physical condition mean nothing - what if the previous owner used the car to learn how to drive stick and rode the clutch? The rest of the car could be perfect.

A newbie would wear out the clutch a little faster(but still insignificant on the grand scheme of things) and stall the car a lot, but if you fail to learn how to drive a stick on one clutch, you have bigger problems like a learning disorder to worry about than a burnt clutch.

I taught a friend how to drive a stick on a beater Accord. A car with close to 90k miles. Even then he didn't burn the clutch to the point we can smell it.

Of course, I wouldn't really let anyone learn on the Camaro, but for different reasons, not clutch wear. If I have a beater I don't care as much about and doesn't have high power, I would be fine teaching people - what better way to save the manual than teaching others when they show interest?

Sent from toaster or something

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Welp, I can tell you that I have bought a few used manual cars, none of which needed transmission repair or clutch replacement soon after purchase. Maybe I just have very good luck?

If there is a problem with the transmission, you could have probably figured it out during test drive. Clutch is for sure trickier to check, but worst case scenario, it's a $1k~$1.5k job(RWD cars tend to actually be a bit cheaper with this one than FWD cars). If you can get a very good price on a used Camaro, it's not the end of the world to shell out a little extra for a new clutch. It's not like a $1k beater Corolla that the clutch job would effectively total the car.

Yes, it's a risk, but if someone hates the drama and really cares about their hard earned money, it's a viable option. And there are used units that have a few thousand miles on them that's still under warranty just like a new car if you are worried, but because they are used, they are still a better value.



A newbie would wear out the clutch a little faster(but still insignificant on the grand scheme of things) and stall the car a lot, but if you fail to learn how to drive a stick on one clutch, you have bigger problems like a learning disorder to worry about than a burnt clutch.

I taught a friend how to drive a stick on a beater Accord. A car with close to 90k miles. Even then he didn't burn the clutch to the point we can smell it.

Of course, I wouldn't really let anyone learn on the Camaro, but for different reasons, not clutch wear. If I have a beater I don't care as much about and doesn't have high power, I would be fine teaching people - what better way to save the manual than teaching others when they show interest?

Sent from toaster or something

Even the most experienced drivers can roast a brand new clutch in one slip if it’s done wrong.

I’m sure the odds are slim and you’ve never had a problem, I just don’t trust people with a big powerful engine to break it in the right way and know how to handle it when driving hard.

Professional drag racing teams rebuild the clutch after each run.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by delthawk5

Ford sells A LOT, and I mean, A LOT of Ecoboost/V6 Mustangs. For every Mustang GT I see driving around here in Florida, I see 2 or 3 base model stangs on the street. I can't say the same for Camaros.

I'll try and find it again, but according to numbers posted on this site from build counts. in 2017 and 2018 only 40% of Camaros sold were V-8s. 60% of them were lower trims. I would bet its a similar split for Mustang and Challenger.

[b4z]

saw on a facebook group that prodiuction restarted a few weeks ago and they are working 5 days a week 11 hour days to rebuild inventory.

[AZCamaroFan]

speaking of

[s346k]

Originally Posted by b4z

saw on a facebook group that prodiuction restarted a few weeks ago and they are working 5 days a week 11 hour days to rebuild inventory.

yeah because they know its about to happen all over again.