[00 Trans Ram]

Originally Posted by sub_ETCS_ret

OMG! You mean the heavens didn't open up and the earth didn't move because they weren't hub centric.

Wait for it. They're coming.

Yeah, I heard that all the time. Never replaced a stud, never replaced a wheel bearing. And I pushed the absolute FiretrUCK out of that car!

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by 00 Trans Ram

...
My "hand gauge" is pretty accurate. From 10+ years of autox and road racing, where you remove/replace wheels/tires 2-3x per day, for 2-3 days in a weekend, 1-2 weekends per month (that's ~1500 lug nuts torqued per year, or ~15,000 in my lifetime), I got pretty good at getting right around 100lb/ft with just a 2' breaker bar.

Basically, I'll tighten with an electric drill, set the car down just enough so the wheels don't turn, then use the breaker bar. I know that if I do 1 good "put most of my weight OOMPF" on the bar, it'll be within 5lbs of 100ft/lb of torque.

We're on the same page here. A work-in-progress owners manual doesn't override physics. To quote Neil deGrasse Tyson "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."

[TheDoubleE]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

When putting on my winter wheels, I checked the as-delivered torque. They varied from 90 to 120 LbFt. So I torqued the new setup to 120 LbFt.

FYI, YMMV.


140 LbFt is still foolishly close to the dry limit for a typical 12.9 grade M14. You guys go ahead and strip your lugs "because the manual said so".

I agree. The 140 lb/ft is extremely high. This is most-likely because of the high lateral g's this car is capable of. If you drive close to the limit of adhesion, then I would torque to 140 lb/ft on the track. If you drive your car on the street only and drive it somewhat safe, you will never reach those loads.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by TheDoubleE

I agree. The 140 lb/ft is extremely high. This is most-likely because of the high lateral g's this car is capable of. If you drive close to the limit of adhesion, then I would torque to 140 lb/ft on the track. If you drive your car on the street only and drive it somewhat safe, you will never reach those loads.

I get where you're coming from, but let's be honest, no production car is achieving anything in terms of g-load that hasn't already happened on the racetrack. It also doesn't override the physics of the bolt strength.

A sanity check is "what do actual racecars torque their lugs to?" It's nothing special. A Spec Miata is still torquing it's 4 lugs to 77-82 LbFt.

[drivingagain]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

I get where you're coming from, but let's be honest, no production car is achieving anything in terms of g-load that hasn't already happened on the racetrack. It also doesn't override the physics of the bolt strength.

A sanity check is "what do actual racecars torque their lugs to?" It's nothing special. A Spec Miata is still torquing it's 4 lugs to 77-82 LbFt.

Have you tried and torqued your wheels to 140 yet? The reason I ask is normally if you do alot of wrenching or have in the past you get a feel for when things are about to break. I have to say my stock wheels at 140 lbs did not feel that way. My rear motorcycle axle is almost the same torque and alot bigger bolt too. So I do see where you are coming from.

[Ryephile]

Honestly I can't think of a good reason to knowingly approach the yield strength of the fastener. The difference in feel between a torque-to-yield fastener and a normal to-torque fastener is obvious. Lug hardware is not going to be TTY. Once you feel it stretch, it's ruined.

[Glen e]

I don't have a problem with the 140, I'll continue to use the spec. It's just another easy push on my Torque wrench.

[drivingagain]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

When putting on my winter wheels, I checked the as-delivered torque. They varied from 90 to 120 LbFt. So I torqued the new setup to 120 LbFt.

FYI, YMMV.


140 LbFt is still foolishly close to the dry limit for a typical 12.9 grade M14. You guys go ahead and strip your lugs "because the manual said so".

Not sure where you got this but according to the information I have researched a max torque for a 12.9 M14 is 184 ft lbs. 140 does not sound like it is foolishly close to stripping hence the reason I mentioned did not feel close either. Here is the link for my information: https://www.fastenermart.com/files/m...en_torques.pdf

Second set of Info indicates 177ft lbs: http://electronicfilters.tpub.com/TM...37-13P_105.htm

For 10.9 M14 x1.5 160 ft lbs http://www.ntractorclub.com/howtos/p...Bolt-Sizes.pdf
Unless you find that our bolts are not 12.9 then I think this can be put to rest?

[Bruce2088]

With my new 204% [sic] accuracy Harbor Freight torque wrench, the FACTORY TIGHTENED lug nuts on my 485 mile old 2024 Camaro 1LE consistently broke loose between 100-105ft/bs on driver side and 105-110ft/lbs on the passenger side. Factory lug nut tightening machine did vary from side to side so they must use two on the line? Since I didn’t have a “6” point 22 socket (read not to use a 12pt), I bought this (CMMT16085) off Amazon for $7.98 and wrapped in 3 rounds of black masking tape to avoid bumps. Fits nice and night.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Bruce2088

With my new 204% [sic] accuracy Harbor Freight torque wrench, the FACTORY TIGHTENED lug nuts on my 485 mile old 2024 Camaro 1LE consistently broke loose between 100-105ft/bs on driver side and 105-110ft/lbs on the passenger side. Factory lug nut tightening machine did vary from side to side so they must use two on the line? Since I didn’t have a “6” point 22 socket (read not to use a 12pt), I bought this (CMMT16085) off Amazon for $7.98 and wrapped in 3 rounds of black masking tape to avoid bumps. Fits nice and night.

Tightening torque and breakaway torque are practically never matched, see this answer for a quick summary: https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/...g-torque#50048.

This is also my personal experience, by the way; I have excellent McGard lug nuts and definitely clamp these things down to 140 lb-ft and always double-check every one, yet breaking them away is always easier (fastener corrosion is not a factor in my case, I strive to keep the car rust free as much as possible, there is obviously some on the hub, but the lugs and lug nuts are 100% clean).

[2004YZFR1]

The 6th gen SS 1LE wheel torque is 140 foot pounds. And the oil pan drain plug is 18 ft pounds.

[Bruce2088]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Tightening torque and breakaway torque are practically never matched, see this answer for a quick summary: https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/...g-torque#50048.

This is also my personal experience, by the way; I have excellent McGard lug nuts and definitely clamp these things down to 140 lb-ft and always double-check every one, yet breaking them away is always easier (fastener corrosion is not a factor in my case, I strive to keep the car rust free as much as possible, there is obviously some on the hub, but the lugs and lug nuts are 100% clean).

But I read it on the internet! Just kidding. I didn’t. Just my attempt to be methodical. I wondered if it was accurate breaking them free searching for the click and thanks for the link to set me straight.

Now tell me I’m wrong to not torque (or rather try to torque) my oil filter to 22ft lbs? I spun until gasket touched base, marked with sharpie, and hand tightened 1 rev and that’s where my instincts told me to stop. I couldn’t even get a 10ft/bs click using two different torque wrenches though. First time trying to tool torque a filter but hey, trying to baby the new Camaro. These tests rotated about another 1/4 turn which I’m fine with. She’s tight. I read about someone breaking the housing trying to meet factory torque. Others said hand tight is fine and 22 would be way to tight. I’m strong and “my” hand tight is exactly the tooless max I’ve ever done a filter ever and I’ve done all but 2 oil changes on my vehicles in last 30 years. Just thought I’d ask your opinion and see if I can get more enlightened.

[RamAir02]

Originally Posted by Bruce2088

But I read it on the internet! Just kidding. I didn’t. Just my attempt to be methodical. I wondered if it was accurate breaking them free searching for the click and thanks for the link to set me straight.

Now tell me I’m wrong to not torque (or rather try to torque) my oil filter to 22ft lbs? I spun until gasket touched base, marked with sharpie, and hand tightened 1 rev and that’s where my instincts told me to stop. I couldn’t even get a 10ft/bs click using two different torque wrenches though. First time trying to tool torque a filter but hey, trying to baby the new Camaro. These tests rotated about another 1/4 turn which I’m fine with. She’s tight. I read about someone breaking the housing trying to meet factory torque. Others said hand tight is fine and 22 would be way to tight. I’m strong and “my” hand tight is exactly the tooless max I’ve ever done a filter ever and I’ve done all but 2 oil changes on my vehicles in last 30 years. Just thought I’d ask your opinion and see if I can get more enlightened.

FWIW, I've never torqued the oil filter to a specific spec. Hell, I don't even own an oil filter wrench. I hand tighten to the point at which I believe I'll be able to hand remove at a later date. It's far from scientific, but I've never had an issue. I've been doing oil changes on my vehicles for 20+ years this way.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Bruce2088

But I read it on the internet! Just kidding. I didn’t. Just my attempt to be methodical. I wondered if it was accurate breaking them free searching for the click and thanks for the link to set me straight.

Now tell me I’m wrong to not torque (or rather try to torque) my oil filter to 22ft lbs? I spun until gasket touched base, marked with sharpie, and hand tightened 1 rev and that’s where my instincts told me to stop. I couldn’t even get a 10ft/bs click using two different torque wrenches though. First time trying to tool torque a filter but hey, trying to baby the new Camaro. These tests rotated about another 1/4 turn which I’m fine with. She’s tight. I read about someone breaking the housing trying to meet factory torque. Others said hand tight is fine and 22 would be way to tight. I’m strong and “my” hand tight is exactly the tooless max I’ve ever done a filter ever and I’ve done all but 2 oil changes on my vehicles in last 30 years. Just thought I’d ask your opinion and see if I can get more enlightened.

Yeah, I just hand tighten the oil filter, too. It has a thick gasket that compresses pretty well as you keep tightening, there should be no need for the torque wrench in this case. I'm more concerned about overtightening it with a big lever than not tightening it enough. Don't think I've ever seen anyone torque down an oil filter