[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by jcastag

What I can't figure out is...

Why the F##K have they been dragging their feet with it. Are their engineers such morons that it took 3+ years to figure out the issue?

People should be fired over this. Period.

In my (non-car manufacturing) experience it's hardly ever the engineers behind these stalls. I believe they wanted and still want to fix this for good.

[crosive]

Originally Posted by jcastag

What I can't figure out is...

Why the F##K have they been dragging their feet with it. Are their engineers such morons that it took 3+ years to figure out the issue?

People should be fired over this. Period.

politics. they are doing what they can, whilst also avoiding lawsuits to the best of their ability. admitting there is a problem officially would have people coming out of the woodworks saying they have problems when they don't just to get something for nothing.

I doubt very seriously that this issue wasn't known. It was probably a known entity that went the whole "it'll be cheaper to fix those that exhibit it, than replace every one of them"

that's a metric none of us know and gm is probably pretty tight lipped about.

Just look at the blanket statement Al gave. His statement did nothing but appease those that didn't know, and barely even acknowledged the problem itself, was indeed a problem.

[crosive]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

In my (non-car manufacturing) experience it's hardly ever the engineers behind these stalls. I believe they wanted and still want to fix this for good.

exactly. any man worth his mettle wants anything his name is attached to, to be something he can be proud of. Even if you could boil the problem down to 1 guy, I bet he's already thought of how to fix it, and is doing everything he can to get it solved.

these engineers aren't minimum wage burger flippers at mcdonalds we're talking about.

[jcastag]

I am not saying the engineer should be fired but people that made decisions that allowed this issue to get this out of control should be.

This is pathetic.

[18Hotwheels-SS]

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

GM has addressed the issue and a fix is coming. I don't think you all understand what's involved in finding out the root cause of a problem, finding a solution and designing updated parts and programming, testing to see if it fixes the problem, finding vendors to make new improved parts, making enough parts to fix all the affected vehicles out there (in the 10's to possibly 100's of thousands of vehicles), stocking all the parts depots and dealers, updating all the dealers software, making new repair procedures and warranty claims and extensions possibly, then rolling it out to the customers and dealers.

I understand everyone's frustration, I drive the same car with a A8. But a "fix" is not something that happens in a few months, or even a year or 2. It's a huge undertaking to redesign, test, and manufacture a part to fix 4 years worth of cars and trucks. It's also bad on the dealers who can only do what GM allows them to do to fix the problem.

Just be patient people, A fix is hopefully coming.

I get what your saying but I am sure this problem came up in testing before the release and it was ignored because they were already committed with the A8, but at that time is when they should have been figuring out the fix of a problem they knew was coming.
I am not happy with the way I have been treated buy the dealers I have been to with the Hot Wheels. Because they are not the selling dealer they can't fix any of the issues I have had before the shudder started. I have driven Challengers since 2008 and NEVER had any issues that i had to go to the dealer for except the airbag recall. My Hellcat's transmission with 707 HP had no issues. I am now looking into the Hellcat Red Eye Wide Body. If anyone wants a 2SS Hot Wheels with 5k and a transmission shudder let me know.

[keon718nyc]

Originally Posted by 18Hotwheels-SS

I get what your saying but I am sure this problem came up in testing before the release and it was ignored because they were already committed with the A8, but at that time is when they should have been figuring out the fix of a problem they knew was coming.
I am not happy with the way I have been treated buy the dealers I have been to with the Hot Wheels. Because they are not the selling dealer they can't fix any of the issues I have had before the shudder started. I have driven Challengers since 2008 and NEVER had any issues that i had to go to the dealer for except the airbag recall. My Hellcat's transmission with 707 HP had no issues. I am now looking into the Hellcat Red Eye Wide Body. If anyone wants a 2SS Hot Wheels with 5k and a transmission shudder let me know.

I feel your pain. I am getting out of my 16' in couple months and going the Challenger route as well for the next. I had problems with any and every car in the past 25 years it seems but the problems arising on the Camaro now have topped it all. I was going to bring it in for shudder and will just to get it on paper before i hand it back in. I really love the car but done with it after lease is up. Low miles 15,000 here with next month being 3 years having the car. Anyone want to buy my low mileage shuddering, rear diff groaned, brake assist fail, cooling fan malfunctioned Camaro, let me know LOL

[jcastag]

That's the entire point. If this car was released 6 months ago or even a year ago I could see them not understanding the problem, but this car has been out since 2016 and this problem has been around since 2016. If someone in the GM leadership team was trying to intentionally keep this problem quiet they should be fired. It was an engineer or an engineering team that knew there was a problem and tried to keep it quiet they should be fired.

I don't want to hear the excuses about how long it takes to isolate and find the cause of an issue. They could have redesigned an entirely new transmission or swapped the transmission with the 10-speed one or two years ago if they couldn't figure out what the problem is.

[cooper1965]

I feel like there are way too many guys here who ALWAYS got a trophy or ribbon growing up, even when they were in last place....
If you "really" wanted your trans fixed, you could have done it long ago.
Now, GM will have a solution in a matter of months.
Step back, and calm down a bit. These arn't high end Lambo's or something. My wifes new minivan costs more than a damn SS. The world is not perfect, but its not out to get you. lol.

[18Hotwheels-SS]

Originally Posted by keon718nyc

I feel your pain. I am getting out of my 16' in couple months and going the Challenger route as well for the next. I had problems with any and every car in the past 25 years it seems but the problems arising on the Camaro now have topped it all. I was going to bring it in for shudder and will just to get it on paper before i hand it back in. I really love the car but done with it after lease is up. Low miles 15,000 here with next month being 3 years having the car. Anyone want to buy my low mileage shuddering, rear diff groaned, brake assist fail, cooling fan malfunctioned Camaro, let me know LOL

The only thing I will say is the Challenger will not handle as good as the Camaro. I will say the Challenger has a lot more room and very comfortable on a long trip. I have taken the Challenger on a 1200 mile road trip with no problems. I could not imagine doing that in the Camaro but that's not what I bought it for. I do love the handling of the Camaro but I will take quality over handling. I do not plan on going track racing but i will be going to the wide body if I make the move or a ZL1 stick.

[jcastag]

Originally Posted by cooper1965

I feel like there are way too many guys here who ALWAYS got a trophy or ribbon growing up, even when they were in last place....
If you "really" wanted your trans fixed, you could have done it long ago.
Now, GM will have a solution in a matter of months.
Step back, and calm down a bit. These arn't high end Lambo's or something. My wifes new minivan costs more than a damn SS. The world is not perfect, but its not out to get you. lol.

Thats your opinion and other people are entitled to theirs. If you don't have an issue with buying a $50k car that has a tranny issue that the manufacturer took 3+ years to even acknowledge was an issue feel free. If you don't see an issue with them doing a BS band aid fix when they knew that was not the true issue 9r fix and was just to shut people up, that is also your choice.

I have a problem with that and I think many others do as well.

I never said they were out to get me, but this was not handled properly

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by jcastag

Thats your opinion and other people are entitled to theirs. If you don't have an issue with buying a $50k car that has a tranny issue that the manufacturer took 3+ years to even acknowledge was an issue feel free. If you don't see an issue with them doing a BS band aid fix when they knew that was not the true issue 9r fix and was just to shut people up, that is also your choice.

I have a problem with that and I think many others do as well.

I never said they were out to get me, but this was not handled properly

Hard to argue with any of this...

[bturner2]

It's hard to argue about how long it's taken to get (or will get) this issue resolved. Believe me it will effect my decision to keep my car longer or move on to something different as well but let's be truthful here about the Challenger. Unless you're buying at the very top of the food chain there is very little, if any cutting edge technology engineered into this old platform. All Chrysler's products have suffered quality issues and the chances that the company will even be around in 5 years is split about even.

To suggest that the Challenger is a zero issue vehicle is misleading at best. All one need do is go to their enthusiast page and start reading the posts. With the exception of the signature cars Chrysler tends to be at or very near the bottom for quality about anyway you want to look at it so please don't try and tell everyone that the Challenger is some hand crafted jewel that you'll have zero issues with.

The truth is that just about any car you buy today will have less issues than cars from 10 - 15 years ago. All manufactures have their issues. Even the flagship vehicle of the non car person, the Suburu is seeing a recall of 640K cars across their entire product line. And if you think you can go out and buy an Audi which can cost you nearly twice as much as a Camaro think again. Consumers Affairs have them rated at 2 stars. Mercedes is there as well with a 2.5 star rating.

None of this helps us with the infuriating issue we're experiencing but be aware that unless you plan to move to a Honda Accord or a Camry you'll have to suck it up and wait for the fix. It's just part of the deal with cars that push the edge of technology that they'll suffer from time to time with that new technology.

[jcastag]

Originally Posted by bturner2

It's hard to argue about how long it's taken to get (or will get) this issue resolved. Believe me it will effect my decision to keep my car longer or move on to something different as well but let's be truthful here about the Challenger. Unless you're buying at the very top of the food chain there is very little, if any cutting edge technology engineered into this old platform. All Chrysler's products have suffered quality issues and the chances that the company will even be around in 5 years is split about even.

To suggest that the Challenger is a zero issue vehicle is misleading at best. All one need do is go to their enthusiast page and start reading the posts. With the exception of the signature cars Chrysler tends to be at or very near the bottom for quality about anyway you want to look at it so please don't try and tell everyone that the Challenger is some hand crafted jewel that you'll have zero issues with.

The truth is that just about any car you buy today will have less issues than cars from 10 - 15 years ago. All manufactures have their issues. Even the flagship vehicle of the non car person, the Suburu is seeing a recall of 640K cars across their entire product line. And if you think you can go out and buy an Audi which can cost you nearly twice as much as a Camaro think again. Consumers Affairs have them rated at 2 stars. Mercedes is there as well with a 2.5 star rating.

None of this helps us with the infuriating issue we're experiencing but be aware that unless you plan to move to a Honda Accord or a Camry you'll have to suck it up and wait for the fix. It's just part of the deal with cars that push the edge of technology that they'll suffer from time to time with that new technology.

I agree with some of this, but most of it is not relevent.

The tranny issue has nothing to do with it being "the edge of technology" as there is nothing new about our tranny design or torque converter. This was just an example of GM not admitting to an issue it seems they either knew about or were just too lazy to take the time and identify and resolve.

The problem is that GM used the "ignore it and hope it goes away" attitude with this not caring or realizing how big the issue was.

And the reason I will NEVER buy another Honda product?? My 2001 Acura TL went through 3 transmissions in 60k miles due to an issue that took them 2 years to acknowledge that there was an issue with the design of the tranny and it would cause overheating.

[18Hotwheels-SS]

I am not saying that Chrysler / Dodge / Ram does not have problems. But I own 3 Ram 5500's service trucks, 1 Ram 3500 right now, have had a Challenger since 2008 so I have the right to have an opinion. I have Kenworth service trucks that cost me 172K each that have had the navigation go out, we brought them in and they were fixed. One of my employee's just had a rocker arm come off on his Ram 1500, stuff happens. The 50K i spent on this Camaro is the cheapest out of all of them. So for me its not the money. Its the service I have gotten from the dealers and a problem that is years old without a resolution. I called the Chevy dealer that I spent over 150K in one week with, after having two local Chevy dealers not what to help me with some of my issues because they didn't sell the car, treat me like crap. To me this goes beyond the car. sure I have had to bring some of the other vehicles I own in for service and warranty work but there was a fix and I was treated like with respect. I am a dealer for 77 different product lines. Terex, IMT, Fassi, Cormach,Manitex, just to name a few and if one of my employees ever treated a customer the way I have been treated by GM they would not have a job with me, and we have NEVER had a issue that two plus years we did not have a fix for. My customers would not put up with it and I would not blame them. This kind of stuff can ruin a manufacture. Look at International trucks, they had come out with the MaxForce engine years ago and it was a disaster. Trucks with the engine spent more time in shops than on the road. I personally had one that spent 6 months in the shop in one year. I had to just about give it away when I traded it in. International sales to this day have dropped so bad that if VW didn't step in to bail them out they would have went under. I just specked a truck for customer, the had to go International due to there company wanting to lease through Ideal Lease ( owned by International ) and we had to jump through hoops to get a Cummins in the truck. No one wants a International motor even though the MaxForce is no longer in production. In the car / light truck world I would put whats going on with this transmission right up with Ford and the 6.0 diesel. they lost A LOT of customers , myself included. that's why I have Ram 5500's not F-550's.

As a dealer myself for Cranes if I sold a 500K Crane on a Kenworth with Truck problems the customer would not tell his buddy's that Kenworth sold me a piece of crap it would be CraneWorks sold me a piece of crap. That's why you would never see a new International on my lot. GM needed to take care of this problem ASAP.