[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Funny how many in here wanted to see the PP2 in this Lightning Lap with the hopeful anticipation of a poor showing. Well that didn't happen it solidly beat the 1LEs time. Your just going to have to deal with it the same way you have to deal with the A10 GT is faster than the SS in 0-60, 1/4, and top end.

Where did any of us say that the PP2 would do poorly at the Lightning Lap? Or are you talking out your ass? Because I don't remember anyone saying that. Please post the thread where we all said this. I'll wait...

Funny thing is that you keep trying to brag but then you seem to remember that you guys all said that track numbers don't matter unless it is same day same track. So this LL of the GT PP2 beating the SS 1LE is just as legit as the SS 1LE matching the GT350R if that's the case.

[Iroc_Z28]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Funny how many in here wanted to see the PP2 in this Lightning Lap with the hopeful anticipation of a poor showing. Well that didn't happen it solidly beat the 1LEs time. Your just going to have to deal with it the same way you have to deal with the A10 GT is faster than the SS in 0-60, 1/4, and top end.

"But with no differential cooler, the rear axle overheated every time we took the Mustang out, often in as few as three hot laps, and even with easy laps staggered between them."

[joe944]

Seeing these two cars competing so closely is pretty awesome in my opinion. It will only result in better cars.

I can understand the mindset for having loyalty to a brand, but why limit your options? Variety is the spice of life.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Where did any of us say that the PP2 would do poorly at the Lightning Lap? Or are you talking out your ass? Because I don't remember anyone saying that. Please post the thread where we all said this. I'll wait...

Funny thing is that you keep trying to brag but then you seem to remember that you guys all said that track numbers don't matter unless it is same day same track. So this LL of the GT PP2 beating the SS 1LE is just as legit as the SS 1LE matching the GT350R if that's the case.

Here is one for you not specific to the LL but you get the idea. That 1LE vs PP1 posting is very ripe with materials, actually its almost comical some of the post based on the performance data we have now.

"Sounds like a lot of talking up from Ford, lol!! They advertise the PP and PP2 as being all this and all that and yet it is unlikely that either of these will be able to match the SS 1LE. Yet now we're supposed to believe in some miracle programming that will adjust the suspension THAT drastically?? Sounds like a lot to be hopeful for. And it sounds like an overhyped LC. If anything it'll slightly adjust the suspension so that you don't put excess strain on the parts or so that it is better suited for straight line work instead of whatever limited cornering it is capable of. It is nothing that Chevy and Dodge don't have or do...Ford just figured out a fancy name for it. It ain't like you're gonna bust off a 12.4 in the car, the put it in drag mode and drop another 3 seconds off. It more than likely won't have any effect at all or maybe just a minimal impact on the car's performance." Go back and read through its entertaining.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Where did any of us say that the PP2 would do poorly at the Lightning Lap? Or are you talking out your ass? Because I don't remember anyone saying that. Please post the thread where we all said this. I'll wait...

Funny thing is that you keep trying to brag but then you seem to remember that you guys all said that track numbers don't matter unless it is same day same track. So this LL of the GT PP2 beating the SS 1LE is just as legit as the SS 1LE matching the GT350R if that's the case.

The majority narrative was that it would come close. With that, most thought the 1LE would edge out the PP2. The PP2, in end, edged out the 1LE in LL and vice-versa in MT BDC...

In a blanket statement, like “yet it is unlikely that either of these will be able to match the SS 1LE,” I think what needs to be taken in that case is holistic - yeah, the PP2 is capable in putting down the lap time, but just in the... A lap time. Enter you comments on aftermarket parts now and, yeah, then it’s “capable “.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Here is one for you not specific to the LL but you get the idea. That 1LE vs PP1 posting is very ripe with materials, actually its almost comical some of the post based on the performance data we have now.

"Sounds like a lot of talking up from Ford, lol!! They advertise the PP and PP2 as being all this and all that and yet it is unlikely that either of these will be able to match the SS 1LE. Yet now we're supposed to believe in some miracle programming that will adjust the suspension THAT drastically?? Sounds like a lot to be hopeful for. And it sounds like an overhyped LC. If anything it'll slightly adjust the suspension so that you don't put excess strain on the parts or so that it is better suited for straight line work instead of whatever limited cornering it is capable of. It is nothing that Chevy and Dodge don't have or do...Ford just figured out a fancy name for it. It ain't like you're gonna bust off a 12.4 in the car, the put it in drag mode and drop another 3 seconds off. It more than likely won't have any effect at all or maybe just a minimal impact on the car's performance." Go back and read through its entertaining.

Yea I must have really ruffled your feathers. So look dude, I don't know what you're expecting from this site or from me. But when it comes to Camaro vs Mustang, before any data comes out I am going to side with the Camaro. That is what I did in this post that you quoted and I stand by that. You should also note that I have said multiple times that given the amount of time that Ford had to develop the PP2, they should actually beat the SS 1LE. However my money was that they wouldn't. Just like you put your eggs in the Ford basket, I put mine in the Camaro basket. ANd for all your bragging you seem to keep ignoring that the SS 1LE beat the PP2 in MT's testing. Or are you just acknowledging the tests that the Mustang wins? Don't answer that, I already know the answer.

For the record, I do think it's all hype from the Ford camp. At best, the Mustang matches the SS 1LE now. Which is funny because you sit here bragging when the Mustang is finally on SS level. Which means that if Mustang performance is now all this and all that, then SS performance was a LOT better than you gave it credit for all this time. Which makes you just as ignorant as you're trying to make me look. You and others sat here downplaying the SS all this time just to now praise and brag about SS level performance, lol!! I find that to be entertaining.

So congrats. You finally made it to the big leagues. Even if it took a major rework of the entire damn car. I am still not impressed. If this was 2015 then I would be. But that was 3 years ago bud.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Mountain

The majority narrative was that it would come close. With that, most thought the 1LE would edge out the PP2. The PP2, in end, edged out the 1LE in LL and vice-versa in MT BDC...

In a blanket statement, like “yet it is unlikely that either of these will be able to match the SS 1LE,” I think what needs to be taken in that case is holistic - yeah, the PP2 is capable in putting down the lap time, but just in the... A lap time. Enter you comments on aftermarket parts now and, yeah, then it’s “capable “.

That is what I gathered. That many of us said it would be close but the SS 1LE would edge it out. Which is why I don't understand why newmoon is acting like a 7 year old screaming "nah nah nah". LOL!! Given what Ford did with the S550 chassis it is no wonder why anyone would think the GT would be no match regardless of what number showed up after "PP". Even the Ford guys didn't think the PP2 would be able to keep up. Considering that it took over half way through 2018 to get these results I doubt any of us are all that impressed or surprised. Did the Mustang do better than I expected? Sure it did, I'll give it that. But the Camaro did it right from the start. There is no way that the Mustang should have needed this drastic of a performance upgrade to get to where the Camaro was 2 years ago. So again, I really can't respect the GT. Not in this current Generation. If they hit it out of the park for the next Generation then I'll have respect for THAT Generation. But to me the S550 has been a failure that needed to be completely erased and re-done just to be competitive.

[Gunkk]

Damn shame Ford didn't put proper cooling in the PP2. Then it might actually have been a contender against the 1LE. But after all that hype they still only ended up with a one-lap-wonder.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Yea I must have really ruffled your feathers. So look dude, I don't know what you're expecting from this site or from me. But when it comes to Camaro vs Mustang, before any data comes out I am going to side with the Camaro. That is what I did in this post that you quoted and I stand by that. You should also note that I have said multiple times that given the amount of time that Ford had to develop the PP2, they should actually beat the SS 1LE. However my money was that they wouldn't. Just like you put your eggs in the Ford basket, I put mine in the Camaro basket. ANd for all your bragging you seem to keep ignoring that the SS 1LE beat the PP2 in MT's testing. Or are you just acknowledging the tests that the Mustang wins? Don't answer that, I already know the answer.

For the record, I do think it's all hype from the Ford camp. At best, the Mustang matches the SS 1LE now. Which is funny because you sit here bragging when the Mustang is finally on SS level. Which means that if Mustang performance is now all this and all that, then SS performance was a LOT better than you gave it credit for all this time. Which makes you just as ignorant as you're trying to make me look. You and others sat here downplaying the SS all this time just to now praise and brag about SS level performance, lol!! I find that to be entertaining.

So congrats. You finally made it to the big leagues. Even if it took a major rework of the entire damn car. I am still not impressed. If this was 2015 then I would be. But that was 3 years ago bud.

That pretty much covers it.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by Gunkk

Damn shame Ford didn't put proper cooling in the PP2. Then it might actually have been a contender against the 1LE. But after all that hype they still only ended up with a one-lap-wonder.

It's a 3 lap wonder. And you only get 1 hero lap out of a set of SC2's so its got 2 laps to spare.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

It's a 3 lap wonder. And you only get 1 hero lap out of a set of SC2's so its got 2 laps to spare.

3 laps with cooldown laps staggered in between is what they actually said.

Cooling aside, I'm surprised to be honest. I didnt think the car had that time in it. I'm interested to see a H2H now. But Ford please put coolers on it at least as an option.

[benjj]

There wouldn’t be much to say had ford just thrown the damn coolers on it. I think the choice came down to ford not wanting to step on the 350s toes any further. It looks bad when a $45k version of a car is matching the $60k version of the same car. Same with how the Camaro is nearing the corvette, but at least those are different cars and different platforms.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

3 laps with cooldown laps staggered in between is what they actually said.

Cooling aside, I'm surprised to be honest. I didnt think the car had that time in it. I'm interested to see a H2H now. But Ford please put coolers on it at least as an option.

This is what they actually said....

"But with no differential cooler, the rear axle overheated every time we took the Mustang out, often in as few as three hot laps, and even with easy laps staggered between them. So there is one thing it needs besides a proper name."

There are a few different ways to interpret that, but my way of looking at is that they drove three hot laps and got a temp warning so then they tried staggering in CD laps and found that regardless by the 3rd hot lap it would give a warning. Granted I wasn't there , but it seems a logical progression.

As far as a H2H.. I'm not convinced that MT actually drives both cars same day in their H2H's... they dont when they do their other comparison testing. Maybe it's just too logistically difficult?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

This is what they actually said....

"But with no differential cooler, the rear axle overheated every time we took the Mustang out, often in as few as three hot laps, and even with easy laps staggered between them. So there is one thing it needs besides a proper name."

There are a few different ways to interpret that, but my way of looking at is that they drove three hot laps and got a temp warning so then they tried staggering in CD laps and found that regardless by the 3rd hot lap it would give a warning. Granted I wasn't there , but it seems a logical progression.

As far as a H2H.. I'm not convinced that MT actually drives both cars same day in their H2H's... they dont when they do their other comparison testing. Maybe it's just too logistically difficult?

It overheated in THREE laps even when there were easy laps staggered in between them. That means that no matter what they did it overheated by the third lap. So hot lap 1, easy lap 2, 3rd lap overheat. That is what it means. It doesn't mean they got three great laps with it overheating on the third. So if you really look at it, that means it is good for only 1 lap. Because if you do one great lap, then an easy lap, and the third lap it overheats, then out of 3 you got one good lap.

I agree with others that they were worried about pissing off GT350 owners. The GT with A10 is already faster than the GT350 in a straight line. So if the M6 PP2 GT beats the Shelby around a track then WTF would anyone wanna spend an extra $20K on it for? The name?? LOL!! This is why Ford should have just done it right the first time. If they had built the GT like this out the gate, then the Shelby would have been built better or they would have been able to skip it altogether and give you guys a GT500 like they damn well should have. So it would be much more even like things were in 13 and 14. But by building the GT like it was and then making the Shelby the way it was they severely limited themselves. And now you have 4 Mustangs with V8s all hovering in the same performance area.