[RedonBlackRS]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

0-60 isn't the only thing that matters and then when shifts take less than a pro driver with a manual...the difference becomes even less an issue.

And remember the 10 speed has only one extra power gear than the 8. We aren't talking about enough gear changes to hurt. And you can't deny that the A8 cars from every manufacturer run faster than their manual equivalents.

Will it make 4 tenths, not a chance. Will it improve by a tenth or two over the 8L90. Quite possible. But I do believe this new 10 speed is more about the track and squeezing MPG higher than anything.

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Exactly! The A10's biggest performance advantage is simply having one more speed range for the pwerband to operate within for track purposes, and therefore allowing a higher engine speed immediately following each upshift for drag purposes. Of course, the biggest efficiency gain is having a third (holy crap) overdrive ratio.

[FINALLYSATISFIED]

Originally Posted by Jeffro19

It will be interesting to see what dodge does with the 2017 hellcat if anything to compete with the 2017 ZL1. They may do nothing or tweak a few things.

Dodge won't do anything significant. Lifespan ends in 2018. I'm excited either way you look at it over the next 1-3 years.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

0-60 isn't the only thing that matters and then when shifts take less than a pro driver with a manual...the difference becomes even less an issue.

And remember the 10 speed has only one extra power gear than the 8. We aren't talking about enough gear changes to hurt. And you can't deny that the A8 cars from every manufacturer run faster than their manual equivalents.

Will it make 4 tenths, not a chance. Will it improve by a tenth or two over the 8L90. Quite possible. But I do believe this new 10 speed is more about the track and squeezing MPG higher than anything.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Just doing research of when the stingray went from 6 spd to 8 spd auto, there was no discernable difference in straight line performance between either. Just very doubtful straight line would gain more than a .1 advantage from 8 spd to 10 spd. Biggest gain appeared to be in mpg's.

[Jeffro19]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

Just doing research of when the stingray went from 6 spd to 8 spd auto, there was no discernable difference in straight line performance between either. Just very doubtful straight line would gain more than a .1 advantage from 8 spd to 10 spd. Biggest gain appeared to be in mpg's.

It will definitely make a difference just not are how much. On the track is where we will see the 10spd make a difference

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

Just doing research of when the stingray went from 6 spd to 8 spd auto, there was no discernable difference in straight line performance between either. Just very doubtful straight line would gain more than a .1 advantage from 8 spd to 10 spd. Biggest gain appeared to be in mpg's.

I never found a review of an A8 C7 to an A6 C7 from the same media reviewer. All of the A8 reviews were convertible Z51s so that kind of rules out any apples to apples comparison. But I agree there is not a huge difference, 2 tenths at best vs the 6 speed. MPG is definitely the main reason behind them. Increased acceleration is just a bonus.

This MT review pretty much says the same things we have:

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2015-...c-first-drive/

[HCT]

Just thought I'd chime in as I currently own a Charger Hellcat.

I'm looking to downsize at some point but I still want 4 seats, so the ZL1 is looking very interesting. I'm probably going to wait at least a year to see if Ford releases a GT500 before making a final decision though.

I'm very excited about the A10. I suspect the final verdict will come down to how smart the software is. The ZF 8 speed used in the Hellcats is used in a wide variety of cars and it's up to each manufacturer to create a shift map. So the identical physical hardware in a Bentley Mulsanne shifts very differently from the same unit in a Hellcat. That said, I expect that GM will apply all they've learned from the A8 such that the A10 should perform well right from day one. (When I say "perform well" I don't just mean shift speeds at WOT, but also downshifting aggressively going into turns without upsetting the chassis.)

As far as performance matchups go, I think the ZL1 should handily outperform the Hellcat. The Challenger has about 6.3 lbs/HP and the ZL1 has about 6.1 lbs/HP. The ZL1 has wider, more aggressive tires and Chevy has more sophisticated traction management than the Dodge does. In a straight line it'll be close but the ZL1 will have the edge; around a track the Hellcat will not even be in the same zip code, LOL.

I speak from experience when I say the Hellcat is hard to launch well consistently. (Much easier on drag radials but I'm talking about stock tires.) So apart from the times set by magazine reviewers, in any street matchup I'd expect the ZL1 to win consistently.

[datboi448]

Originally Posted by HCT

Just thought I'd chime in as I currently own a Charger Hellcat.

I'm looking to downsize at some point but I still want 4 seats, so the ZL1 is looking very interesting. I'm probably going to wait at least a year to see if Ford releases a GT500 before making a final decision though.

I'm very excited about the A10. I suspect the final verdict will come down to how smart the software is. The ZF 8 speed used in the Hellcats is used in a wide variety of cars and it's up to each manufacturer to create a shift map. So the identical physical hardware in a Bentley Mulsanne shifts very differently from the same unit in a Hellcat. That said, I expect that GM will apply all they've learned from the A8 such that the A10 should perform well right from day one. (When I say "perform well" I don't just mean shift speeds at WOT, but also downshifting aggressively going into turns without upsetting the chassis.)

As far as performance matchups go, I think the ZL1 should handily outperform the Hellcat. The Challenger has about 6.3 lbs/HP and the ZL1 has about 6.1 lbs/HP. The ZL1 has wider, more aggressive tires and Chevy has more sophisticated traction management than the Dodge does. In a straight line it'll be close but the ZL1 will have the edge; around a track the Hellcat will not even be in the same zip code, LOL.

I speak from experience when I say the Hellcat is hard to launch well consistently. (Much easier on drag radials but I'm talking about stock tires.) So apart from the times set by magazine reviewers, in any street matchup I'd expect the ZL1 to win consistently.

I'd have to agree on this, the zl1 will be lighter, grippier, and more aerodynamic. It seems that you can't go too hard on a launch with a cat without spinning. The zl1 will be able to launch much more aggressively and keeping it very close.

No clue how close a rolling start would be between the two.

And yeah, on the track, the zl1 will be running circles around a cat.

[newmoon]

Listen getting a 640-707 hp car to stick on factory rubber is going to be a challenge regardless of whether you have 275s or 305s out back on a street tire. Unless the track has fantastic prep you are going no where quik.

Remember when the 12 ZL1 came out and most were running mid-high 12s, only very few were able to get the car anywhere near an 11-sec pass of factory rubber. This new ZL1 will have much more tq which likely will make launching even tougher. I'd expect this new ZL1 to run very similar times to the present CTS-V 11:70-12:00 on factory rubber, and 11:20-11:40s on a quality DR.

[Sven59]

I'll take the non skinny tire car for $100 Bob.

[NINJA10R]

jus hoping to see some of that copo know how filter down to the ZL -1

[63falcondude]

Originally Posted by HCT

Just thought I'd chime in as I currently own a Charger Hellcat.

I'm looking to downsize at some point but I still want 4 seats, so the ZL1 is looking very interesting. I'm probably going to wait at least a year to see if Ford releases a GT500 before making a final decision though.

Be aware that the back seats in the gen 6 Camaro are basically useless. Might be able to use them in a pinch.

[Mister Will]

Originally Posted by 63falcondude

Be aware that the back seats in the gen 6 Camaro are basically useless. Might be able to use them in a pinch.

Exactly how useless? I've seen the back seats. I have a 4 year old, but he is only going to get bigger. While most of the rides in a ZL1 will be solo, but it would be nice to take the family for a drive. Otherwise why not just stick with a vette?

I'm in the same boat as this guy.

two things work against a Z06 for me.

1. I cant afford a 100k car
2. have a 3 year old so trips to grandma's house requires back seat.

congrats though it is an amazing car.

Z06 drivetrain without the Z06 price.

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Listen getting a 640-707 hp car to stick on factory rubber is going to be a challenge regardless of whether you have 275s or 305s out back on a street tire. Unless the track has fantastic prep you are going no where quik.

Remember when the 12 ZL1 came out and most were running mid-high 12s, only very few were able to get the car anywhere near an 11-sec pass of factory rubber. This new ZL1 will have much more tq which likely will make launching even tougher. I'd expect this new ZL1 to run very similar times to the present CTS-V 11:70-12:00 on factory rubber, and 11:20-11:40s on a quality DR.

Look at the bone stock 1/4 mile fast list, the first 25 are under 12.5 and the top 13 are under 12 seconds.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Sven59

Look at the bone stock 1/4 mile fast list, the first 25 are under 12.5 and the top 13 are under 12 seconds.

Go back and read the ZL1 forum for actual results not the best of the best list. But even taking the list into consideration out of the thousands of ZL1s out there and the majority of their forum more interested in drag racing than track racing, we have 12 passes in 5 years? The conclusion is your car can have all the power in the world but unless you are running a true DR your chance for a great pass is very slim. All the power players including the last GT500, Hellcat, present ZL1 and future ZL1 need a DR or incredible track prep such as what can be had at a private track rental.

Think of it this way if I go out and run a 13-sec pass in a car that is supposed to run 11s do you think I want to add that time to the list?