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Old 09-16-2019, 09:30 PM   #15
1LEThumper
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 50MileSmile View Post
Having owned both, I can say I agree with most of what the OP says, with these further points:

1. The paint and assembly quality of my Ď16 GT350 was abysmal. In fact, I turned down the first one I ordered because of the runs in the paint, thin spots where you could see the primer and thumbprints in the putty around the back window where the workers tried to hide the fact that the rear window didnít fit properly. This was the car that invented the term ďpaint boogersĒ - dozens paint drips on many edges, including over the headlights, along the hood, the bottoms of the doors, etc. - that broke off if you even touched them lightly, exposing bare metal. After Ford sent two engineers to look at it, they gave the dealer the choice of returning the car to Dearborn, where it would be repainted and used in the press pool, or keeping it. The dealer kept it and ended up repainting more than half the body before selling it (with full disclosure to the buyer). The replacement GT350 was much better, although small areas of paint on the passenger door came off the first time I washed it. I only got to drive it for 4 or 5 months, because it was subject to the loose oil cooler line recall. Then I had to park the car for 5 months until the parts arrived, and I got it fixed and traded it for an M2 the next day. The GT350 was an amazing vehicle to drive in anger (that sound!), but I feel badly for Carrol Shelbyís reputation because this is the last vehicle he had anything to do with.

2. The quality of my Ď18 1SS 1LE is head-and-shoulders above the GT350, but the rear vision is as unacceptably bad as everyone says it is, and the interior is a little tighter than the Mustangís. I canít, for example recline the driverís seat as far as I want to, because Chevrolet has pinned the seat back to keep it from hitting the rear seat - which in all reality is just an upholstered package shelf. I like the mode controls better in the Camaro and can feel a significant difference between them; the shocks feel a little more compliant and in-control than the ones in the GT350 to my butt dyno. The 1LE is a little easier and more comfortable to drive in anger - it wonít surprise you once the line is set, like the Mustang can - so the 1LE is a better (and for me, a slightly faster) track car. However, the 6.2 sounds like every other Chevy small block in heat, and it doesnít provide nearly the aural orgasm the GT350 delivers.

3. At local Cars and Coffee events and other, larger car shows, the 1LE always draws more attention than the GT350 ever did. One reason may be that for $15,000 less the Camaro is viewed as being more attainable for the average enthusiast. I was surprised by this, because I thought the Shelby name would be magic.

4. Given the choice, I would buy the 1LE again, mostly because the quality lapses in the GT350 scared me. I can drive 150 in anything, go hot-air ballooning and hang out of the basket or even vote in a presidential election, but Iíll never drive a new Mustang again because they scare the crap out of me. YMMV.
I want to say I am by no means a pro driver, or even semi pro. I have worked in pro road racing for the better part of 14 years so I have a good idea of the car setup....but like most of us we spend most of our time on the other side of pit wall.

This is my first Camaro since 1994 (which was also a 1LE), and the Shelby is only my second Mustang. Almost all of my other performance cars in the last 20 years have all been Corvetteís. Having a daughter now forced the back seat. Now that being said the Shelby has never surprised me on track. It has done exactly what I have asked it to do, and I never thought I needed to push it past the limits for a weekend at the track for zero gain and a possible totaled car....there is no $25,000 prize or girls and TV cameras if you win a local HPDE event. The C6Z I had before my daughter was born....it commanded a bit more respect as it could very easily over power itself in just about any situation if you decided to beat on it for no good reason and didnít know what you were getting into. The 1LE hasnít been on track and I havenít really pushed the car other than a few blasts through the gears to see how it feels...no hard braking into a corner or sliding it around on track but maybe by the end of the year.

The quality...GM has (in my opinion) always been a step up over Ford and Chrysler so it didnít come to any surprise on that. Again my Shelby has been pretty solid. No paint issues other than the dealer marking it up during prep which still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. Knock on wood it doesnít have the rear bumper sag that some have seen, but I expect Iíll have to fix that at some point. The body gaps, while I understand people complaining about it...and it isnít an excuse.....Ford spent $$ on other things like a different trans, suspension, engine, and other parts to make sure it wasnít a wheel/tire/decal package. Which GM loves to do on their stuff. It would be much easier to copy a 1LE off a base SS than it would a GT350 off a base 5.0.

Sucks you didnít have the same good things with your Shelby as I have, and like the rest of us have seen the bad reviews and experiences. Same could be said for my C6Z too...it never gave me any issues in the 80k miles I put on it but others had dropped valves and broken engines in less than 20k along with other issues..

I do think if I had to choose just one, and it was my only car the Camaro would have gotten the choice over the Shelby.
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Old 09-17-2019, 11:25 AM   #16
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I am curious to hear your thoughts after taking the 1LE to the track. You will likely say the GT350 is or at least seems a bit faster.

The 1LE brake pads are what give you the disappointing brake grab feel. They are a compromise for street/track and endurance. Once you bed them in and get them up to temp, they feel just fine on track - otherwise they feel a bit numb, yeah. The Mustang GT and EB (PP) brakes are, in my opinion, excessively grabby for a street car to me - very, very annoying in traffic. The GT350 is about perfect.
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Old 09-17-2019, 11:38 AM   #17
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That splitter on the GT350 looks like a nightmare to live with on the street. My local dealer has one on the lot with the splitter removed, I guess they got tired of test drivers mangling it.

On the 1LE getting more attention: I think the wrapped hood and big wheels really make the Camaro stand out as a track car that looks like one. The Shelby looks awesome to me, but I gotta admit it's almost indistinguishable from the 5.0s on the lot. For that kind of cash upgrade over a 1LE I might want a little more visual pop.
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Old 09-17-2019, 12:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
On the 1LE getting more attention: I think the wrapped hood and big wheels really make the Camaro stand out as a track car that looks like one. The Shelby looks awesome to me, but I gotta admit it's almost indistinguishable from the 5.0s on the lot. For that kind of cash upgrade over a 1LE I might want a little more visual pop.
Unless the car is all black! Still looks cool though!
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Old 09-17-2019, 02:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain View Post
I am curious to hear your thoughts after taking the 1LE to the track. You will likely say the GT350 is or at least seems a bit faster.

The 1LE brake pads are what give you the disappointing brake grab feel. They are a compromise for street/track and endurance. Once you bed them in and get them up to temp, they feel just fine on track - otherwise they feel a bit numb, yeah. The Mustang GT and EB (PP) brakes are, in my opinion, excessively grabby for a street car to me - very, very annoying in traffic. The GT350 is about perfect.

Going to try and get it on track before the end of the year with any luck. I don't see much point in stressing me and the car out in 100 degree Texas heat.

I'm sure it is mostly a pad compound but having been working in the performance sector as long as I have...the Shelby is one of the few cars that can go right from the dealer to the track with no changes. Yes it should have a better alignment and it needs better brake fluid but for most it can do it no questions asked. Even the cars at the Shelby school run stock pads. Given they both put out about the same amount of dust...I would have figured a bit more bite for the mess..

It would be nice if GM would do that for the 1LE crowd....the driving school that is, like they do for the Vette's.
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Old 09-17-2019, 03:13 PM   #20
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GT350 factory alignment is only -1* camber, just like the 1LE. Assuming it comes with DOT3 fluid also.

Can you adjust front camber stock on the GT350, or do you have to get eccentric bolts?
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Old 09-17-2019, 08:24 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Laststandard View Post
GT350 factory alignment is only -1* camber, just like the 1LE. Assuming it comes with DOT3 fluid also.

Can you adjust front camber stock on the GT350, or do you have to get eccentric bolts?
It has some movement, but it needs camber plates just like the Camaro. That said the 2019 and newer GT350ís can be bought from the factory with plates but they are dealer installed.

I have a set of Vorshlag plates for the GT350 and will probably do the same for the Camaro.
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Old 09-17-2019, 09:03 PM   #22
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I love how the GT350 looks..... when I pass them on track! Seriously it was my 1st choice for a track car until I found the 1LE for 25K less
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Old 09-18-2019, 05:02 AM   #23
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I always wondered of why no car magazine has compared the Camaro SS1LE VS the Shelby GT350. Besides the big cost difference, I think that they are very similar performance wise.


C&D did a H2H of the Shelby GT350 VS the Corvette Stingray Z51, the performance numbers and the lap times of the C7 Corvette were better, but the votes were given to the Shelby because of the driving feeling.


When I was shopping around for a car to replace my loved 5th.gen Camaro ZL1, I test drove the Shelby GT350, from outside without the stripes the car looked very similar to any Mustang GT. The high RPM and marvelous exhaust sound were very addictive, but I didn't want to paid the high markup for those cars, instead I went and bought a C7 Corvette Stingray Z51. Comparing my Camaros and my Corvette to the Shelby, I didn't felt I missed something, both of my chevy cars felt quicker on the street from a standing stop, only the higher exhaust noise was the big difference on the Shelby.
For the money I would prefer the 6th gen ZL1 to a Shelby GT350R. For some reason I think that car magazine writers have over stated the Shelbys.
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Old 09-18-2019, 08:36 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1LEThumper View Post
It has some movement, but it needs camber plates just like the Camaro. That said the 2019 and newer GT350ís can be bought from the factory with plates but they are dealer installed.

I have a set of Vorshlag plates for the GT350 and will probably do the same for the Camaro.
Camaro doesn't need camber plates unless you're trying to get past -3*. Stock setups will usually hit -2.4 to -2.6, usually plenty for an average hpde driver.

A bit of clearancing at the strut will usually get at or past -3*
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Old 09-18-2019, 09:06 AM   #25
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Comparo

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1LEThumper View Post
I want to say I am by no means a pro driver, or even semi pro. I have worked in pro road racing for the better part of 14 years so I have a good idea of the car setup....but like most of us we spend most of our time on the other side of pit wall.

This is my first Camaro since 1994 (which was also a 1LE), and the Shelby is only my second Mustang. Almost all of my other performance cars in the last 20 years have all been Corvetteís. Having a daughter now forced the back seat. Now that being said the Shelby has never surprised me on track. It has done exactly what I have asked it to do, and I never thought I needed to push it past the limits for a weekend at the track for zero gain and a possible totaled car....there is no $25,000 prize or girls and TV cameras if you win a local HPDE event. The C6Z I had before my daughter was born....it commanded a bit more respect as it could very easily over power itself in just about any situation if you decided to beat on it for no good reason and didnít know what you were getting into. The 1LE hasnít been on track and I havenít really pushed the car other than a few blasts through the gears to see how it feels...no hard braking into a corner or sliding it around on track but maybe by the end of the year.

The quality...GM has (in my opinion) always been a step up over Ford and Chrysler so it didnít come to any surprise on that. Again my Shelby has been pretty solid. No paint issues other than the dealer marking it up during prep which still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. Knock on wood it doesnít have the rear bumper sag that some have seen, but I expect Iíll have to fix that at some point. The body gaps, while I understand people complaining about it...and it isnít an excuse.....Ford spent $$ on other things like a different trans, suspension, engine, and other parts to make sure it wasnít a wheel/tire/decal package. Which GM loves to do on their stuff. It would be much easier to copy a 1LE off a base SS than it would a GT350 off a base 5.0.

Sucks you didnít have the same good things with your Shelby as I have, and like the rest of us have seen the bad reviews and experiences. Same could be said for my C6Z too...it never gave me any issues in the 80k miles I put on it but others had dropped valves and broken engines in less than 20k along with other issues..

I do think if I had to choose just one, and it was my only car the Camaro would have gotten the choice over the Shelby.
Nice write up and comparison. I would just add that ford changed the granny on the gt350 because the GT granny sucks. The 1le doesn't get a different granny because all SS's get a tremec just like the gt350 so no need to upgrade.

You should time them from 0 to 60, 70 - 130, and 1/4 to see which one is actually faster, I'd be a cool comparison that doesn't happen often. I suspect the 1le will be better at stand still stuff and the gt350 is faster once they're already rolling at speed.
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Old 09-18-2019, 09:09 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
That splitter on the GT350 looks like a nightmare to live with on the street. My local dealer has one on the lot with the splitter removed, I guess they got tired of test drivers mangling it.

On the 1LE getting more attention: I think the wrapped hood and big wheels really make the Camaro stand out as a track car that looks like one. The Shelby looks awesome to me, but I gotta admit it's almost indistinguishable from the 5.0s on the lot. For that kind of cash upgrade over a 1LE I might want a little more visual pop.
I actually notice 1le's get a lot of attention due to the stance, wheels, and hood but I think gt350s look great and stand out against regular 5.0s quite a bit. Especially the side profile with those corvette esque side vents, I think the gt350 looks better than the 500.
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2000 Miata MX5 - vvt engine rebuild, manual swap, torsen diff swap.
2018 Camaro SS 1LE - GM cai, black bowties, suede knee bolsters, 1le plate frame, black fuel door.
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2006 GTO - iat relocation, air box mod, monero side marker lights.
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Old 09-18-2019, 09:21 AM   #27
NeverDie
 
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Originally Posted by 1LEThumper View Post
Going to try and get it on track before the end of the year with any luck. I don't see much point in stressing me and the car out in 100 degree Texas heat.
You all had your last 100 degree day this year weeks ago... lmao

Plus I can tell you for certain that these cars don't really care about lapping when it is 110 degrees out and full sun.
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:14 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1LEThumper View Post
Going to try and get it on track before the end of the year with any luck. I don't see much point in stressing me and the car out in 100 degree Texas heat.

I'm sure it is mostly a pad compound but having been working in the performance sector as long as I have...the Shelby is one of the few cars that can go right from the dealer to the track with no changes. Yes it should have a better alignment and it needs better brake fluid but for most it can do it no questions asked. Even the cars at the Shelby school run stock pads. Given they both put out about the same amount of dust...I would have figured a bit more bite for the mess..

It would be nice if GM would do that for the 1LE crowd....the driving school that is, like they do for the Vette's.
The 1LE is just about the same. You can run it on track without the alignment and brake fluid swap, but not more than 8/10ths. The car really needs at least a good DOT 4 fluid. Add the alignment and some 40-weight oil and the car will track all day in 100 heat.
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