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Old 09-18-2019, 09:55 AM   #3543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newmoon View Post
Yes my following statement from above was very hateful.

"The ZL1 A10 is the star of the lineup, it offers it's owners fantastic all around performance, street, strip, and track without abusing the driver all with an even lower price than the ZLE, this is the car to compare to the Base 500."
LOL, while you can point to a magazine editor that said what you puked out, as you have not experienced any of this yourself, it was still not relevant in the broader conversation.

You pop in, drop some comment that is negative to the Camaro in response to something completely different, and disappear.
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:23 AM   #3544
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Originally Posted by Baldilocks01SS View Post
At the end of the day, at least the ZL1 isn't a Ford and that's how I feel about it. ~
This. All day.
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:24 AM   #3545
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Originally Posted by ST1LE View Post
LOL, while you can point to a magazine editor that said what you puked out, as you have not experienced any of this yourself, it was still not relevant in the broader conversation.

You pop in, drop some comment that is negative to the Camaro in response to something completely different, and disappear.
Don't forget he also ignores the comments where he gets factually owned in.
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:30 AM   #3546
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Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87 View Post
Don't forget he also ignores the comments where he gets factually owned in.
Exactly. Not here to have meaningful conversation, just here to incite anger and disrupt the conversations. Dang, only if they had a word for that.......
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:30 AM   #3547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87 View Post
Don't forget he also ignores the comments where he gets factually owned in.
And let's not forget he keeps trying to compare the ZL1(E) to the GT500 in 1/4 mile times. Everybody knows the GT500 has to beat BOTH the Demon/RedEye in the 1/4 AND the ZLE on a road course convincingly (not a close shave). Which I think is possible. Those are the matchups. Anything else than a double victory is a failure. Especially given the time it took to come out, and the MSRP, let alone AMDs.
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Old 09-18-2019, 02:04 PM   #3548
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If it was only just the Camaro faithful posting here were would the fun in that be, and this thread would not have over 3500 posts. I guess I could go back to the Oldsmobile forums but they don't have the number of people or any information on how GM in moving forward.
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Old 09-18-2019, 03:15 PM   #3549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newmoon View Post
Yes my following statement from above was very hateful.

"The ZL1 A10 is the star of the lineup, it offers it's owners fantastic all around performance, street, strip, and track without abusing the driver all with an even lower price than the ZLE, this is the car to compare to the Base 500."
The ZLE from the start was not meant to be for DD use. GM stated that many times. Magazine writers re-emphasized it many times. And some owners also verified it. However there are some of us who are used to stiff suspensions from DDing older cars that had modded suspensions. So some of us are not bothered by it. However the ZL1 should take on the GT500 because it would not be a fair fight if the ZLE stepped in. Reason being is that the ZLE will destroy the Base GT500 without much effort. Even the ZL1 will beat it. The only hope lies in the CF GT500. If any car is going to beat the ZL1 OR ZLE around a track, then that will be the CF version if it can.

Dollar vs dollar or trim vs trim there is nothing Ford has to compete with the Camaro lineup. That is how I feel. Even if you look at it dollar per dollar the most expensive Camaro is still buttloads cheaper than the cheapest GT500 and we know how that will play out. The only car capable of beating them costs $95 THOUSAND dollars. And even if you put the C8 up against the Ford lineup by dollar the Base C8 would be going up against the GT350 (non-R) and the Shelby is still more expensive and won't stand a chance. Same with the GT350R if it went against the C8 Z51. So really it isn't even a competition anymore dollar per dollar. Same thing trim per trim. Ford simply cannot win.
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Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001 View Post
And let's not forget he keeps trying to compare the ZL1(E) to the GT500 in 1/4 mile times. Everybody knows the GT500 has to beat BOTH the Demon/RedEye in the 1/4 AND the ZLE on a road course convincingly (not a close shave). Which I think is possible. Those are the matchups. Anything else than a double victory is a failure. Especially given the time it took to come out, and the MSRP, let alone AMDs.
I'm gonna have to disagree on the GT500 beating the ZL1 in the quarter mile. I do not think that is a given. I would like to see what happens and I do think the GT500 will have the advantage. But if I know one thing its that these 700+ HP cars are very difficult to launch. And if they are not equipped with the right tire then they end up being mid to high 11 sec cars like the Hellcat was for the first 2-3 years of it's life without DRs. The GT500 might be in that same boat. Or it might do a low 11. In any case I do think the ZL1 might have a chance to beat it.
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If it was only just the Camaro faithful posting here were would the fun in that be, and this thread would not have over 3500 posts. I guess I could go back to the Oldsmobile forums but they don't have the number of people or any information on how GM in moving forward.
That isn't what this is about. It is about newmoon's negative arrogant insulting behavior lately. He used to offer some really good points and counterpoints. And it used to be enjoyable reading his replies. He even once messaged me when I was upset about something. But for some reason these past few months he has been doing nothing but insulting the Camaro and repeating the same statements over and over again. Shaffe, on the other hand, prefers the Mustang but he at least offers valuable constructive criticism and very enjoyable debates. So I'm not sure what is going on with newmoon but something is wrong. He is starting to behave like Ethanolic and that ain't cool. Whatever the case is I hope he goes back to his old self.
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:54 PM   #3550
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Originally Posted by newmoon View Post
And that ZLE is going to get embarrased on the street and strip, you know where people actually drive their cars. If your going to compare a ZL1 to a GT500 base, the ZL1 is a much better comparison, it actually wont throw your back out and rattle your dental fillings loose on the street, and it's faster.
You realize that it’s an application specific package ...right?

Now available with A10 ...so it’s faster “where people actually drive their 650 HP cars” ...to their potential.
Quote:
“This car (ZL1 1LE) is a little bit more of a daily driver than the last Z28, but it’s still a solid mount suspension and a track oriented ride.” So maybe the standard ZL1 is the best choice for anyone who isn’t planning on regular racing.
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:00 PM   #3551
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Originally Posted by hotlap View Post
You realize that it’s an application specific package ...right?

Now available with A10 ...so it’s faster “where people actually drive their 650 HP cars” ...to their potential.
Mustang guys want (and need) every advantage they can get. If it were up to them they'd put the CF GT500 up against the ZL1 instead of the ZLE. I mean it's not enough that the GT500 has an extra 110 HP, DCT, and is $10K more than the ZL1. And it's not enough that the ZL1 took on the GT350R (which was the best Mustang at the time) instead of the non-R. And then they completely bypassed testing the ZLE against any Mustang because it would have been a total slaughter. But the GT500 can't go up against the ZLE according to newmoon, lol! Give me a break. They probably won't put it up against the ZLE because they wanna protect their buyer's feelings. They don't want to see their new ultimate Mustang get roasted by a 3 year old Camaro.

I say bring it on anyway they want it. ZL1 against both GT500s for all I care. I don't have much faith that the GT500 is going to work wonders.
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Old 09-19-2019, 06:33 AM   #3552
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Originally Posted by BlaqWhole View Post
I'm gonna have to disagree on the GT500 beating the ZL1 in the quarter mile. I do not think that is a given. I would like to see what happens and I do think the GT500 will have the advantage. But if I know one thing its that these 700+ HP cars are very difficult to launch. And if they are not equipped with the right tire then they end up being mid to high 11 sec cars like the Hellcat was for the first 2-3 years of it's life without DRs. The GT500 might be in that same boat. Or it might do a low 11. In any case I do think the ZL1 might have a chance to beat it.
Good point here, there is no real-world data available on the GT500's performance yet, so we just don't know. Some people assume from the advertised horsepower that it's really quick. Truth could be different, just like it is with the Hellcat as you mentioned. The FIRST dragstrip pass that I saw from a Camaro ZL1 A10 on the stock tires handily beat EVERY Hellcat time on street tires that I have ever seen here.
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Old 09-19-2019, 07:35 AM   #3553
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Originally Posted by BlaqWhole View Post
Mustang guys want (and need) every advantage they can get. If it were up to them they'd put the CF GT500 up against the ZL1 instead of the ZLE. I mean it's not enough that the GT500 has an extra 110 HP, DCT, and is $10K more than the ZL1. And it's not enough that the ZL1 took on the GT350R (which was the best Mustang at the time) instead of the non-R. And then they completely bypassed testing the ZLE against any Mustang because it would have been a total slaughter. But the GT500 can't go up against the ZLE according to newmoon, lol! Give me a break. They probably won't put it up against the ZLE because they wanna protect their buyer's feelings. They don't want to see their new ultimate Mustang get roasted by a 3 year old Camaro.

I say bring it on anyway they want it. ZL1 against both GT500s for all I care. I don't have much faith that the GT500 is going to work wonders.
Same reason they never pitted the gt350 vs the ss 1le. Now that the gt350 comes with psc2's they might be a little more willing to make that comparison.
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Old 09-19-2019, 10:36 AM   #3554
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I am going to go ahead and say it, flame suit on and buttoned up. This CPC 5.2 has the potential to be(in my opinion only) the best engine offering in this generation of pony cars.

I thought the same about the Voodoo, and was sadly mistaken, but I feel like I can assume they did this CPC right(not sure why lol).

Anyway, it sure does sound amazing in this video.

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Old 09-19-2019, 10:58 AM   #3555
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Gt500

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Originally Posted by ST1LE View Post
I am going to go ahead and say it, flame suit on and buttoned up. This CPC 5.2 has the potential to be(in my opinion only) the best engine offering in this generation of pony cars.

I thought the same about the Voodoo, and was sadly mistaken, but I feel like I can assume they did this CPC right(not sure why lol).

Anyway, it sure does sound amazing in this video.

Could very well be. The last gen gt500 also had a heck of an engine.
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Old 09-19-2019, 12:23 PM   #3556
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The problem is Tadge lied about the Manual C7 take rate. He claimed 15% and dropping. That is completely false. Lowest manual take rate of all C7 production years was 22%. That's a hell of a lot more cars than 2000/year.

ZR1 manual take rate was also 30% - so it seems that the higher HP models had more manual buyers...something to keep in mind.

What I see from "millennial" auto enthusiasts is the opposite of the "manual is dying" trend...they are driving BRZs, STIs, EVOs, Focus RS or STs, etc...and you guessed it, all with manuals.

Agreed on LT5 Camaro dominance...and I can't see GM sitting for another 3 straight years on 6th gen production without any significant changes or upgraded power - still hoping!
Even if Tadge made it seem lower than it is, 22% is still pretty low

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Plus his argument is completely invalid, I've seen 10x as many ZLEs at track days than GT350s & GT350Rs and guess which one has been out twice as long?!?!


Sure some dealers are marking down the ZLEs but how is that a bad thing? Because Chevy dealers aren't all greedy shit heads like Ford dealers putting $50k mark ups on 350Rs/Raptors/GT500s?!?! Seems like a plus to me.

Mark downs only really bad for people that decide to flip after a year or so
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Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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