Homepage Garage Wiki Register Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
#Camaro6
Go Back   CAMARO6 > CAMARO6.com General Forums > 2016+ Camaro: 6th Gen Camaro general forum


BeckyD @ James Martin Chevy


Post Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-11-2020, 10:20 PM   #43
396ssrat

 
Drives: 66 Chevelle SS
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
The car is now in its 6th model year. It was designed and engineered for a very limited market. Any additional marketing at this point wouldn’t matter.
Meanwhile the Camaro is third in sales in it's class.
__________________
66 Chevelle SS 396
91 octane Driver n/a
6.44@105.78 1/8th mile
396ssrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2020, 08:55 PM   #44
Number 3
Hail to the King baby!
 
Number 3's Avatar
 
Drives: '19 XT4 2.0T & '22 VW Atlas 2.0T
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 12,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by 396ssrat View Post
Meanwhile the Camaro is third in sales in it's class.
Exactly. They missed from the beginning for a broader audience. They gave a Camaro that the masses didn’t want but the Camaro Faithful begged for. You cannot market or advertise a focused product to the broader market. It doesn’t work that way. And suddenly cranking up the marketing on a 6 year old car just isn’t going to explode the sales.
__________________
"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley
Number 3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2020, 06:22 AM   #45
Smokin19

 
Drives: 19' ZL1 A10, w/pdr
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: S.W. ohio
Posts: 1,541
I don't give a damn what they do. I have my ZL1 and it's my last new car. There will always be something else to buy.
__________________
BTR Stg II cam w/ 38% fuel lobe, ARH 2" headers into 3" w/cats, AWE Touring, Kong X port, Weapon X triple ht exchangers, NW 103, Rotofab big gulp, DSX lowside, TCM tune, BMR Lockout, Mustang dyno 720 rwhp, 634 rwtq on 93 pump.
Smokin19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2020, 08:07 PM   #46
mikeman
Banned
 
Drives: 2015 Camaro
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: My Garage
Posts: 1,125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
Exactly. They missed from the beginning for a broader audience. They gave a Camaro that the masses didn’t want but the Camaro Faithful begged for. You cannot market or advertise a focused product to the broader market. It doesn’t work that way. And suddenly cranking up the marketing on a 6 year old car just isn’t going to explode the sales.
They deviated from the more muscular 5th gen design which turned many potential buyers away and towards the Challenger/Mustang. They should have stayed with the 5th gen retro look with some updates or went for a totally different but modern new 2nd gen retro design.

Maybe the 7th gen, if/when it arrives, will do this.
mikeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2020, 01:52 PM   #47
shaffe


 
Drives: 21 Bronco
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Carol Stream
Posts: 6,023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
Exactly. They missed from the beginning for a broader audience. They gave a Camaro that the masses didn’t want but the Camaro Faithful begged for. You cannot market or advertise a focused product to the broader market. It doesn’t work that way. And suddenly cranking up the marketing on a 6 year old car just isn’t going to explode the sales.
This ^

They put all their eggs in the performance basket and it resulted in the best performing car in the segment by far. The car is pretty much universally loved by the automotive press, so from a driver engagement and performance standpoint they nailed it.

The problem is the other two cars in it's class are better coupes. And over 60% of the cars sold in this segment are the lower end trims so making it a good coupe is kind of important
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT View Post
Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
shaffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2020, 04:52 PM   #48
396ssrat

 
Drives: 66 Chevelle SS
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
Exactly. They missed from the beginning for a broader audience. They gave a Camaro that the masses didn’t want but the Camaro Faithful begged for. You cannot market or advertise a focused product to the broader market. It doesn’t work that way. And suddenly cranking up the marketing on a 6 year old car just isn’t going to explode the sales.
And neither is keeping it hidden from view. In my opinion, making the Camaro a corner carver vs a straight line performer was a gross mistake. They have Corvette for corner carving. The absence of Camaro on the drag strip, let alone being out front is glaring. As a matter of fact GM marketing overall is lacking. Why should I pay for options I do not want? How about letting the customer tell you what they want and make it available to them the way they want it? If I want a lightweight stripped down version then build it. As a manufacturer your only obligation is to make it emissions legal and safe.
__________________
66 Chevelle SS 396
91 octane Driver n/a
6.44@105.78 1/8th mile
396ssrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2020, 05:08 PM   #49
ember1205
Hot Camaro
 
ember1205's Avatar
 
Drives: '20 2SS Convertible 6MT
Join Date: May 2020
Location: CT
Posts: 3,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by 396ssrat View Post
And neither is keeping it hidden from view. In my opinion, making the Camaro a corner carver vs a straight line performer was a gross mistake. They have Corvette for corner carving. The absence of Camaro on the drag strip, let alone being out front is glaring. As a matter of fact GM marketing overall is lacking. Why should I pay for options I do not want? How about letting the customer tell you what they want and make it available to them the way they want it? If I want a lightweight stripped down version then build it. As a manufacturer your only obligation is to make it emissions legal and safe.
That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but I completely disagree.

The Corvette is financially out of reach for me, period. The Camaro was a little bit of a stretch, but I can handle it. If all the Camaro did was perform like a Hellcat, I would have bought a luxury car.

You ALWAYS pay for options you don't want. And the more we allow the insurance companies to mandate all of these stupid "advancements" that are supposed to make cars safer, the more we're going to pay for crap we don't want or need.
ember1205 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2020, 06:23 PM   #50
Modernmusclecar

 
Modernmusclecar's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro SS
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Parts unknown
Posts: 820
Give it the 5th gen muscle car look with the current drivetrain and call it a day. The car tanked in sales from the beginning. If people loved it then it would sell...plain and simple.
Modernmusclecar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2020, 07:14 PM   #51
UnknownJinX

 
UnknownJinX's Avatar
 
Drives: 19 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE Shock
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 1,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by ember1205 View Post
That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but I completely disagree.

The Corvette is financially out of reach for me, period. The Camaro was a little bit of a stretch, but I can handle it. If all the Camaro did was perform like a Hellcat, I would have bought a luxury car.

You ALWAYS pay for options you don't want. And the more we allow the insurance companies to mandate all of these stupid "advancements" that are supposed to make cars safer, the more we're going to pay for crap we don't want or need.
Same here. With C8 on the scene, I think Camaro and Corvettes are pretty different cars. Not to mention, what does the Camaro gain by being a smaller Challenger? If anything, you want to differentiate yourself from your competitor, not become them.

And even on the drag strip, the C7 is gonna have an advantage due to the lower weight. Let's not even get started on the C8.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 396ssrat View Post
Why should I pay for options I do not want? How about letting the customer tell you what they want and make it available to them the way they want it? If I want a lightweight stripped down version then build it. As a manufacturer your only obligation is to make it emissions legal and safe.
IMO the whole "choose the option I want" thing is actually more expensive. Real life example include BMW and Porsche cars. You can option them exactly how you want them... Just expect to pay more even for the base model. Hard to streamline the process when you can freely choose every little option.

Not to mention, this is actually a nuiseance to your average buyer to separate all options. Much easier to make the choice when they are bundled together.

And even such a base model exists, you can bet that NO dealer will have one in stock. You'd have to order it, in which case, your room for negotiation becomes a lot smaller and it ends up being a worse value than a low-trim model or mid-trim model that you can potentially negotiate to the same price as the base model, then just strip out everything yourself(which you can potentially sell to others to recoup some cost, even). People care about value(not just the price), too.

Like, have you ever seen a 1LS trim Camaro around? Ever? Base models only exist on paper to boast a low price so people come check out the car. The salesman then push people to buy a higher trim car. That's how it works.

If optioning is your thing, buy a Porsche. Plain and simple. In fact, I have read that most people order their Porsches anyway. The cars they have sitting around are mostly just for test drives.
__________________
Current:
2019 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE M6 Shock

GM Performance Intake and that's it, because driver mods before car mods

Past:
2009 Mazda RX-8 GT M6 Velocity Red Mica (Sold)
2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z51 2LT M7 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat (Flood totaled)
UnknownJinX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2020, 09:50 PM   #52
ember1205
Hot Camaro
 
ember1205's Avatar
 
Drives: '20 2SS Convertible 6MT
Join Date: May 2020
Location: CT
Posts: 3,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnknownJinX View Post
IMO the whole "choose the option I want" thing is actually more expensive. Real life example include BMW and Porsche cars. You can option them exactly how you want them... Just expect to pay more even for the base model. Hard to streamline the process when you can freely choose every little option.

Not to mention, this is actually a nuiseance to your average buyer to separate all options. Much easier to make the choice when they are bundled together.

And even such a base model exists, you can bet that NO dealer will have one in stock. You'd have to order it, in which case, your room for negotiation becomes a lot smaller and it ends up being a worse value than a low-trim model or mid-trim model that you can potentially negotiate to the same price as the base model, then just strip out everything yourself(which you can potentially sell to others to recoup some cost, even). People care about value(not just the price), too.

Like, have you ever seen a 1LS trim Camaro around? Ever? Base models only exist on paper to boast a low price so people come check out the car. The salesman then push people to buy a higher trim car. That's how it works.

If optioning is your thing, buy a Porsche. Plain and simple. In fact, I have read that most people order their Porsches anyway. The cars they have sitting around are mostly just for test drives.
It isn't just your opinion, it's fact. The reason that you can't order most vehicles with exact option combinations is because it slows down production overall and that drives up cost. Your examples call that out with specific cars that allow it, and the consumer paying a premium for it. There is a reason that basically all car manufacturers that produce certain minimum quantities build by demographics - it allows them to retain profit margin while not making the car cost-prohibitive to the consumer.

As far as the base model stuff, I don't know that I see it quite the same. Do base models exist? Yes. Can you buy them? Sometimes. You just need to live near where they are available which isn't likely.

Right now, there are less than 10 total "minimalist" 2020 Camaro's sitting on dealer lots throughout the US. Less than 10. All coupes. Lump in the used market and include Gen5 and the number goes all the way up less than 150. And only two convertibles. When you're talking about a car like the Camaro, with little to no true "utilitarian" function, the base model simply doesn't cut it for almost all consumers. They want options, even if it's just a few. It's a car for fun, after all...

Sales people will always try and upsell you because there's more profit in cars with more options. But also, the consumer will typically -like- the car better with more options.
ember1205 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2020, 10:21 PM   #53
ModernCamaroZ28Fan
LT1_Radenso
 
ModernCamaroZ28Fan's Avatar
 
Drives: a 2 spd water bottle
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: In your trunk
Posts: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by 396ssrat View Post
And neither is keeping it hidden from view. In my opinion, making the Camaro a corner carver vs a straight line performer was a gross mistake. They have Corvette for corner carving. The absence of Camaro on the drag strip, let alone being out front is glaring. As a matter of fact GM marketing overall is lacking. Why should I pay for options I do not want? How about letting the customer tell you what they want and make it available to them the way they want it? If I want a lightweight stripped down version then build it. As a manufacturer your only obligation is to make it emissions legal and safe.
Many people seem to forget that the Camaro was always referred to as "The Hugger" in its first years and onto the 70s. Making the camaro soley a straight-line muscle car would take away from its heritage, and would no longer render the vehicle as a Mustang rivalry.

Sure, The Challenger has no true competitors and maybe that's why it sells so well. But, making the Camaro a Challenger go-getter causes the car to innovate into something more unrecognizable for older fans.

With that being said, I wish the ZL1 trim was more of a straight-line performer rather than a bigger, badder, supercharged version of an SS. Leave the Z28 as the track car, and ZL1 has the dragstrip powerhouse. That way, the car can have the best of both worlds.
__________________

ModernCamaroZ28Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2020, 10:34 PM   #54
Hops
 
Hops's Avatar
 
Drives: 2019 1ss 1le, blue wrap
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Maryland
Posts: 633
Quote:
Originally Posted by ModernCamaroZ28Fan View Post
Many people seem to forget that the Camaro was always referred to as "The Hugger" in its first years and onto the 70s. Making the camaro soley a straight-line muscle car would take away from its heritage, and would no longer render the vehicle as a Mustang rivalry.

In my formative gear head days i remember the 3rd gen Camaro 1le in scca showroom stock. I've always thought of the Camaro as a road racer, but maybe it's my bias for the turns.
Hops is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2020, 12:45 AM   #55
396ssrat

 
Drives: 66 Chevelle SS
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnknownJinX View Post
Same here. With C8 on the scene, I think Camaro and Corvettes are pretty different cars. Not to mention, what does the Camaro gain by being a smaller Challenger? If anything, you want to differentiate yourself from your competitor, not become them.

And even on the drag strip, the C7 is gonna have an advantage due to the lower weight. Let's not even get started on the C8.



IMO the whole "choose the option I want" thing is actually more expensive. Real life example include BMW and Porsche cars. You can option them exactly how you want them... Just expect to pay more even for the base model. Hard to streamline the process when you can freely choose every little option.

Not to mention, this is actually a nuiseance to your average buyer to separate all options. Much easier to make the choice when they are bundled together.

And even such a base model exists, you can bet that NO dealer will have one in stock. You'd have to order it, in which case, your room for negotiation becomes a lot smaller and it ends up being a worse value than a low-trim model or mid-trim model that you can potentially negotiate to the same price as the base model, then just strip out everything yourself(which you can potentially sell to others to recoup some cost, even). People care about value(not just the price), too.

Like, have you ever seen a 1LS trim Camaro around? Ever? Base models only exist on paper to boast a low price so people come check out the car. The salesman then push people to buy a higher trim car. That's how it works.

If optioning is your thing, buy a Porsche. Plain and simple. In fact, I have read that most people order their Porsches anyway. The cars they have sitting around are mostly just for test drives.
The original Camaro had no problem selling and the buyer got to choose what options they wanted.
__________________
66 Chevelle SS 396
91 octane Driver n/a
6.44@105.78 1/8th mile
396ssrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2020, 12:47 AM   #56
396ssrat

 
Drives: 66 Chevelle SS
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by ember1205 View Post
That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but I completely disagree.

The Corvette is financially out of reach for me, period. The Camaro was a little bit of a stretch, but I can handle it. If all the Camaro did was perform like a Hellcat, I would have bought a luxury car.

You ALWAYS pay for options you don't want. And the more we allow the insurance companies to mandate all of these stupid "advancements" that are supposed to make cars safer, the more we're going to pay for crap we don't want or need.
Actually they made the CTS-V for you. Chevrolet has advanced themselves out of car sales actually. Good thing people like Trucks. They are going to try to force feed and mandate you into an electric car. Not in my future though, I'll be dead by then. Drive train wise my pick up has been dependable but the cheap Chinese plastic interior is maddening. Just wait until the Chinese make electric car parts en mass.
__________________
66 Chevelle SS 396
91 octane Driver n/a
6.44@105.78 1/8th mile
396ssrat is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Post Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.