[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

LOL, I have no idea why you think I'd backtrack on my words. I made those comments 5 months ago and guess what, the A10 GTs back in December were doing exactly what I said they would do. And the M6 did exactly what I said they would do. It is 6 months later and it finally seems that someone was able to option one out in a particular fashion that could run a low 12, lol!! I'm super-impressed...I think it's obvious that I'm not impressed at all.

And I'm still not giving them any credit because it took Ford 3 MYs, the A10 trans, DFI, a specific set of options, and a price bump up into the $50Ks to get to where they should have been all along. So at best, they managed to do now what we and the Dodge guys have been doing all along for the past 2-3 years. And it still took them almost half a year since the first one was released to do it thru an actual unbiased testing source. And even at that it is a one-trick pony car. Congrats Ford, you made a cheaper, slower, less impressive Hellcat with less options that costs $50K, is inconsistent as hell, and will be worth about half it's MSRP in a year and a half. So I get it that the Mustang guys would be happy about it. And good for them. But to me it's kinda like when the slowest kid on the track team crosses the finish line. Like, hooray for you but it took you long enough.

So in other words, I'm not sure if you expect me to take back anything I said because I'm not. At the time I made those statements and in the short amount of time afterwards it was exactly as I said. And even a couple of the Mustang guys on here agreed that I was right at the time as well as a few of the trolls that got lost on their way to M6G and found themselves here admitted. And I think even you yourself said I was spot on back then. LOL!!

Well you discounted all the performance shop runs that ran low 12's saying they must have done stuff to them(which is an asinine thing to say why would a performance shop want a stock car to be that fast? then their tuning and packages don't look as impressive if anything they would have sandbagged them). you discounted the early owners runs, you still seem to discount them, you discounted the evan smith run and you said the Cars.com run wasn't legit.

People kept bringing you examples of the car doing things and none were good enough for you to believe. You kept being skeptical that there was trickery done. Or at least that's the way the majority of your posts read. So just wanted to bring it to the forefront since you love you some magazine times. C/D has the A10GT faster than the A8 SS, and faster than the 350. Both things you said wouldn't happen

and as far as it taking people time to get it, why do you give the Hellcat and Demon the benefit of the doubt of people need time but the Mustang has to do it off the assembly line?

[Spartan268]

Originally Posted by SDG23

Forgive my ignorance on the matter, but I have question about the 5.0 Coyote motor. I know the "5.0" is near and dear to the Ford faithful but at what point is Ford going to have to go with something bigger? The main reason I wonder is that they kept hush hush for quite some time about the 2018's numbers and to me, the whole process seemed to be aimed at squeezing the most out the 5.0 DOHC as possible. I'm not saying they can't squeeze more HP out, but how far can the 5.0 be expected to taken naturally aspirated? It seems to me that it's already being pushed quite far and at some point in the not too distant future, they'll have to move on to something larger.

I believe the euro tax plays a role and probably EPA. Going above 5.0 will mean a higher tax in the EU market. The next step would be to reduce the displacement and introduce F/I into the mix (C63 AMG) OR a hybrid system alternatively (Think NSX).



If you want to see how much can be done with a 5.0 V8 DOHC just look at Lexus. Their V8 has been ahead of Fords for a while now. Motor to motor they are the current benchmark. Based on this logic they can still squeeze out another 10HP out of the coyote N/A.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by ihc95

It's probably going to be a nice-day daily driver. As far as mods, I think the only thing I would want is some nice light weight wheels. Not a fan of the stock PP1 boat anchors. I have no need for an exhaust because I got the Active Exhaust which sounds delicious.



Can't compete motor to motor? LOL did you watch the Motor Trend head to head with the 1LE vs PP1? They did a bunch of mile long drag races and the GT won by a considerable margin every time. Both cars were manual.

Once again because of gearing in that long race. The ss manual is in overdrive gear after 140. That test proved nothing. The gt was geared perfect for that race. Do some homework

And it still failed to win in the 1/4 mile again proving my point.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by SDG23

Forgive my ignorance on the matter, but I have question about the 5.0 Coyote motor. I know the "5.0" is near and dear to the Ford faithful but at what point is Ford going to have to go with something bigger? The main reason I wonder is that they kept hush hush for quite some time about the 2018's numbers and to me, the whole process seemed to be aimed at squeezing the most out the 5.0 DOHC as possible. I'm not saying they can't squeeze more HP out, but how far can the 5.0 be expected to taken naturally aspirated? It seems to me that it's already being pushed quite far and at some point in the not too distant future, they'll have to move on to something larger.

The 5.0 motor is what is called a "modular engine". Which is a crappy name (it should be a "modular engine plant"). What it means is that many engines can be made on the same line with the ability to switch from making one motor to another in a few hours rather than a few days like it used to take. But, those engines have to share some key characteristics. Like bore spacing and deck height. You can make a bigger or smaller V8 engine by drilling bigger or smaller cylinders into the block, but there is a maximum cylinder size before you run out of room (given the fixed bore spacing).

Given the current bore spacing and deck height, the max they could produce in a V8 format (the line can make V6's, V8's, or even V10's) would be in the 5.2 - 5.4 range IIRC. Any bigger, and they would have to go to a V10. I believe that this is the reason Dodge went V10 on the viper.

So, if ford wanted to go to a 6.0L V8 engine, they would need to upgrade the plant to accommodate an engine block with a wider bore spacing and greater deck height. That would be a huge investment, and it would have to tie in with a whole family of motors that would share the same bore spacing and deck height. They could make a 6.0+ Liter V10, but it would be a significantly longer engine (and not fit in a Mustang).

And even if they upgraded the plant that acomodated the wider bore spacing and deck height needed to go for a 6.0+ Liter V8 engine, if they went DOHC, it wouldn't fit in the Mustang. A OHV engine of that size would fit (like the LT1), but going that big with displacement and DOHC would probably be just too big to fit the current S550 platform.

Hope this helps!

[ihc95]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Once again because of gearing in that long race. The ss manual is in overdrive gear after 140. That test proved nothing. The gt was geared perfect for that race. Do some homework

And it still failed to win in the 1/4 mile again proving my point.

lol.

per Car and Driver, 1/4 mile:

2016 SS Auto: 12.3@116

2015 Challenger 392 Auto: 12.6@114

2018 GT Auto: 12.1@120

At this point, its retarded to argue that the Camaro is faster.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by ihc95

lol.

per Car and Driver, 1/4 mile:

2016 SS Auto: 12.3@116

2015 Challenger 392 Auto: 12.6@114

2018 GT Auto: 12.1@120

At this point, its retarded to argue that the Camaro is faster.

He means in any head to head test. Same Day etc.

Congrats on the Mustang man!! You're right, that active exhaust sounds AMAZING!!

I see a GT350 a couple times a week here in downtown Houston, not the same one, and the few GTs with active exhaust I have heard sounded almost as good!! That's huge, because that Voodoo is intoxicating.

[Nsxmatt]

Originally Posted by ihc95

lol.

per Car and Driver, 1/4 mile:

2016 SS Auto: 12.3@116

2015 Challenger 392 Auto: 12.6@114

2018 GT Auto: 12.1@120

At this point, its retarded to argue that the Camaro is faster.

Don't even bother trying to argue with him. He will argue with a brick wall even though the proof is right in front of him. It's always a ringer/conspiracy theory and unless he personally picks out the cars, the track, the drivers, the day, and races and the results are what he wants. Just ignore him, he's an idiot.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by ihc95

lol.

per Car and Driver, 1/4 mile:

2016 SS Auto: 12.3@116

2015 Challenger 392 Auto: 12.6@114

2018 GT Auto: 12.1@120

At this point, its retarded to argue that the Camaro is faster.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

C&D 12.10 @ 120-mph
Cars.com 11.90s @ 119-mph
Hot Rod/MMFF 11.80s at 119.5 mph

The fastest reviewed time for the Camaro is 12:20s so the discussion is now over as to which car is faster at the strip, or until the 19 A10 SS hits the streets?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Well you discounted all the performance shop runs that ran low 12's saying they must have done stuff to them(which is an asinine thing to say why would a performance shop want a stock car to be that fast? then their tuning and packages don't look as impressive if anything they would have sandbagged them). you discounted the early owners runs, you still seem to discount them, you discounted the evan smith run and you said the Cars.com run wasn't legit.

People kept bringing you examples of the car doing things and none were good enough for you to believe. You kept being skeptical that there was trickery done. Or at least that's the way the majority of your posts read. So just wanted to bring it to the forefront since you love you some magazine times. C/D has the A10GT faster than the A8 SS, and faster than the 350. Both things you said wouldn't happen

and as far as it taking people time to get it, why do you give the Hellcat and Demon the benefit of the doubt of people need time but the Mustang has to do it off the assembly line?

You're certainly talking bold. Which is something since you and I have had mostly pleasant and respectful encounters.

But you certainly are exaggerating. For what reason and what you think you have to prove is unknown to me. I said from the start that I was basing my times off 3rd party unbiased independent testing. I never said that anyone didn't run any specific time although I did express my doubts and did make justifiable remarks that some of the runs could have been with modded cars. For the record, even on Evan's YT video of his run one of his long time followers also thought Evans removed the sway bar and did other modifications to the car. And we certainly have seen several incidents of Mustangs being modded and certain mods not being listed or mentioned or counted. So I never said anything that wasn't justified.

I discounted the early owner runs as being official. I have said that time and time again and not one of you Mustang fanboys, to this day, comprehends that. I clearly said, and I'll go back and find the post, that if you count the YT videos and owner runs, then you cannot compare it to Camaro magazine times...which is exactly what SS Friendly and his posse were trying to do. I said that the only way to use those times fairly would be in comparison to Camaro owner YT videos, runs, etc. Now answer this, is that not a fair and reasonable statement?

And even then I said that owner runs are not counted as official. I said clearly from the start that the Camaro has done high 11s but none of us here consider it a high 11 sec car. Others have backed up that statement. I said that the Camaro is officially a low to mid 12 sec car. But you won't call me out on that or accuse me of discounting Camaro times will you? Because you're focused only on the things I've said about the Mustang even when I said the same exact thing about the Camaro. Hypocrite much??

And I wasn't the only one who expressed doubts. There were several others. And rightfully so. If I had a dime for every car owner who told me they had an 11 or 10 sec car and were flat out lying then I'd be wealthy. Anyone can post up a video and run their car to the 11s and say it was stock. I'm supposed to cheer and hoot and holler every time some lying asshole wants to lie to impress someone. GTFO here. And for the record, I made those same comments about Camaro owners.

And I don't "love" magazine times. You can try to be a smartass all you want. But without official testing of these cars, then who's to say what car is what and does what? Are you telling me that you'd be gullible enough to believe everyone who tells you what their car can run? Please, I'm all ears, you tell me the best way to officially say what these cars can or can't do. Because if that's the case, then my ZL1 runs 9s all day while getting 50 MPGs city.

You can huff and puff all you want. I made my comments way back when. I said way back when that I would stand by everything I said. And I stand by my comments. The Mustang for the past 5 months has not done a low 12 sec in the fashion I described. And you yourself sat up here and admitted that I was right at the time. And I'll tell you this much...put it on the line with the SS and I'm still on the Camaro's side for taking the victory. And for the record...even RP said the Camaro was still the faster of the two cars. So you can act all arrogant all of a sudden...maybe you were saving all this all along. Doesn't matter to me one bit. If you think any of this changes my opinion of the Mustang then you're sadly mistaken. If anything, at best, it's a driver's race in a straight line, can't keep up at all in cornering, costs more, and has to be optioned to the stars just to do that.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by ihc95

lol.

per Car and Driver, 1/4 mile:

2016 SS Auto: 12.3@116

2015 Challenger 392 Auto: 12.6@114

2018 GT Auto: 12.1@120

At this point, its retarded to argue that the Camaro is faster.

Same test same day it has not gone faster.

It hasn’t gone faster with private owners either

Car and driver 12.3@118 m6 ss vs 12.6@115 m6 gt. If you want to compare different days.

Not really saying the SS is faster. If you get a gt a10 with drag mode I think it may be faster stock for stock. It’s just not by as much as you think. I’m nearly as fast as steeda shop built a10 gt with more mods than me and race fuel. Keep arguing tenths in stock cars if it makes you feel better. You will still be far from immune to a Camaro at the strip. They are close competitors

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Once again because of gearing in that long race. The ss manual is in overdrive gear after 140. That test proved nothing. The gt was geared perfect for that race. Do some homework

And it still failed to win in the 1/4 mile again proving my point.

Exactly. Up until now they have tried every angle to give the Mustang a shallow win. Even a test which played to the Mustang's strengths and at that on a dirt road. And even then it was a squeak win. The SS came out in 16 and guys took it to track days and ran high 11s. The GT comes out, is optioned a specific way, is given directly to vendors and mags who then made attempts on track rentals in the dead of Winter and only then were able to run what the SS has been running for 3 years. LOL!! And now 5 months later another specifically optioned GT manages to do what we've been doing all along and at best is within a driver's race. So what exactly are any of us supposed to be impressed with? That it took Ford 3 years and some extensive upgrades and a price hike and a special drag mode to match the unchanged since 2016 SS that you can just buy as optioned? Ok. Wow.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You're certainly talking bold. Which is something since you and I have had mostly pleasant and respectful encounters.

But you certainly are exaggerating. For what reason and what you think you have to prove is unknown to me. I said from the start that I was basing my times off 3rd party unbiased independent testing. I never said that anyone didn't run any specific time although I did express my doubts and did make justifiable remarks that some of the runs could have been with modded cars. For the record, even on Evan's YT video of his run one of his long time followers also thought Evans removed the sway bar and did other modifications to the car. And we certainly have seen several incidents of Mustangs being modded and certain mods not being listed or mentioned or counted. So I never said anything that wasn't justified.

I discounted the early owner runs as being official. I have said that time and time again and not one of you Mustang fanboys, to this day, comprehends that. I clearly said, and I'll go back and find the post, that if you count the YT videos and owner runs, then you cannot compare it to Camaro magazine times...which is exactly what SS Friendly and his posse were trying to do. I said that the only way to use those times fairly would be in comparison to Camaro owner YT videos, runs, etc. Now answer this, is that not a fair and reasonable statement?

And even then I said that owner runs are not counted as official. I said clearly from the start that the Camaro has done high 11s but none of us here consider it a high 11 sec car. Others have backed up that statement. I said that the Camaro is officially a low to mid 12 sec car. But you won't call me out on that or accuse me of discounting Camaro times will you? Because you're focused only on the things I've said about the Mustang even when I said the same exact thing about the Camaro. Hypocrite much??

And I wasn't the only one who expressed doubts. There were several others. And rightfully so. If I had a dime for every car owner who told me they had an 11 or 10 sec car and were flat out lying then I'd be wealthy. Anyone can post up a video and run their car to the 11s and say it was stock. I'm supposed to cheer and hoot and holler every time some lying asshole wants to lie to impress someone. GTFO here. And for the record, I made those same comments about Camaro owners.

And I don't "love" magazine times. You can try to be a smartass all you want. But without official testing of these cars, then who's to say what car is what and does what? Are you telling me that you'd be gullible enough to believe everyone who tells you what their car can run? Please, I'm all ears, you tell me the best way to officially say what these cars can or can't do. Because if that's the case, then my ZL1 runs 9s all day while getting 50 MPGs city.

You can huff and puff all you want. I made my comments way back when. I said way back when that I would stand by everything I said. And I stand by my comments. The Mustang for the past 5 months has not done a low 12 sec in the fashion I described. And you yourself sat up here and admitted that I was right at the time. And I'll tell you this much...put it on the line with the SS and I'm still on the Camaro's side for taking the victory. And for the record...even RP said the Camaro was still the faster of the two cars. So you can act all arrogant all of a sudden...maybe you were saving all this all along. Doesn't matter to me one bit. If you think any of this changes my opinion of the Mustang then you're sadly mistaken. If anything, at best, it's a driver's race in a straight line, can't keep up at all in cornering, costs more, and has to be optioned to the stars just to do that.

I do enjoy debating with you, it wasn't meant to come of as hostile its just you seemed to just write off every run that people brought here as suspect or something fishy. It was just getting kind of old especially when I see you in the Hellcat/Demon threads giving them the benefit of the doubt but not the Mustang.

Example

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I'll say it again. People shitted on the ZL1 last year around this time because a few months after it was released there were no 10 second time slips. And now look. I think people need to stop the bullshit and give these cars and owners time. Most of us ZL1 owners have been in ZL1s for a while. And we're in the 2nd year of 6th Gen ZL1 production. The Demon is where we were exactly a year ago. There was like 3-5 people on the fast list with ZL1s and not one of them were in the low 11s. LOL!! It's a bit childish to grab the first few videos made within the first few months of a car being released and automatically declaring this or that. Even if these videos were legit, which I still call BS on some of them, it still is hardly indicative of what we'll be seeing this time next year. Heck some of these Demons are even thru the break-in period yet.

It's not our fault that none of the magazines tested the A10 car till this month.

And yes I did say you were right when stuff popped up that you called.

And here I am now calling you out on things you got wrong lol. Especially the GT350 thing, I remember you be quite adamant that the GT would not be faster in the 1/4 because it was just a GT lol.

[FastCarFanBoy]

people really get worked up over a couple .1's on a drag strip or road course.

these cars are so close in performance that if this was an actual Dick measuring contest you would just call it even rather than actually measuring.

[ULTRAZLS1]

It’s a delusional excuse to think that a same day comparison is the only valid argument.

It always amazes me how people in general can have such a lack of introspection in thought process combined with massive hypocrisy.

M6g mirrored this place and more two years ago. And to think a same day comparison is not important is just plain stupid.