[clanky]

Originally Posted by Mikey LikesIt

A significant factor for why I went with l the Camaro instead of the Mustang was because of rarity. Yea if everyone thought like me it would eventually limit sales. But the SS owns the GT enough that I couldn't resist.

Yea the GT is nothing special but I always wanted to try out a Mustang. I just don't like the GT350 or the Voodoo. We'll see how the new GT500 is. The day after the ZL1 official info is released Ford will release GT500 specs. Then I will have decisions...

Ya I honestly think Ford will release the GT500 specs very soon after the ZL1 is fully priced and full details released. Kinda off topic, but I saw the straight up tackiest thing yesterday down in south Texas. Was a Mustang GT, but had the words Mustang written where shelby normally is on the GT350. Not so bad, but on the side he actually put GT350 stickers on it when it was clearly just a GT. Anyways i'll be really interested in what the GT500 will be.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Mikey LikesIt

A significant factor for why I went with l the Camaro instead of the Mustang was because of rarity. Yea if everyone thought like me it would eventually limit sales. But the SS owns the GT enough that I couldn't resist.

Yea the GT is nothing special but I always wanted to try out a Mustang. I just don't like the GT350 or the Voodoo. We'll see how the new GT500 is. The day after the ZL1 official info is released Ford will release GT500 specs. Then I will have decisions...

If I don't want passed by myself, I don't take my ZL1 out. I grap one of my old cars. Not many big block 64 belvederes running around.

[Mikey LikesIt]

Originally Posted by motorhead

If I don't want passed by myself, I don't take my ZL1 out. I grap one of my old cars. Not many big block 64 belvederes running around.

awesome!

[SpeedIsLife]

The Camaro will never be rare. Certain trims might be, but not something like the SS. Even at say...5,500 a month that will still be 66,000 a year...

I just don't get the whole "exclusivity" argument people toss out about the Camaro...it's already a common car to see, even 6th Gens now.

[Mikey LikesIt]

Rare can be relative. More rare etc.

I see hundreds of Mustangs a day. I didn't want to be part of that.

[Razzaa]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

The Camaro will never be rare. Certain trims might be, but not something like the SS. Even at say...5,500 a month that will still be 66,000 a year...

I just don't get the whole "exclusivity" argument people toss out about the Camaro...it's already a common car to see, even 6th Gens now.

I live in a highly populated area for my Country and I have yet to see another 6gen

[nbryant]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

The Camaro will never be rare. Certain trims might be, but not something like the SS. Even at say...5,500 a month that will still be 66,000 a year...

I just don't get the whole "exclusivity" argument people toss out about the Camaro...it's already a common car to see, even 6th Gens now.

I'm in a relatively populated area in southern Maryland and up to now I have seen lot's of 5th gens, but only 4 6th, two RS's and 2 SS's and this includes mine. Mustangs? Yeah, quite a few and they are wasting good air.

[DenverTaco07]

IMO still too early to be concerned... for those that do care. now if over the next two years it's still mustang way ahead month to month...ok lets start talking.

I think they need better marketing campaign...i don't see alot of stang ads, but man the dodge challenger / charger ads are on every night.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

IMO still too early to be concerned... for those that do care. now if over the next two years it's still mustang way ahead month to month...ok lets start talking.

I think they need better marketing campaign...i don't see alot of stang ads, but man the dodge challenger / charger ads are on every night.

Fiat basically has RAM trucks and Chrysler mini-vans. Passenger car wise they pretty much only have the Challenger/Charger/300. The Dart and 200 have already been publicly relegated to the scrap heap of bad ideas. So from a passenger car standpoint................................it's all they've got.

[Mikey LikesIt]

Originally Posted by Razzaa

I live in a highly populated area for my Country and I have yet to see another 6gen

Same here. I commute all around the SF Bay Area. Even I wouldn't mind seeing a few more 6th gens.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by nvrsatisfied

Poking at you? Seriously? You and your group of monthly sales monitors come on this forum and talk down this car every month. You actually drool for this thread where you can chime in and act like the Canaro is in danger. Each time you do, I will comment and remind you that this a great car and worth every penny. Me and other owners will enjoy our cars on a daily basis, while you post negative comments about a car that you don't own. Your statement that the Camaro is underperforming is a joke, Since you do not know what the goal is for this car. I hope others continue to post positive comments about their cars and maybe you'll realize your comments are pointless

I've only pointed out the reasons GM failed to give me what I wanted in the car, but sadly, I know what it would take to have done that. And for that reason I'm disappointed.

I am and have consistently stated, that I am glad so many people are happy, no elated, about the purchase of their new Camaros. I honestly and truly am. You just have to be able to accept that there are some people that had hoped for even more, like me. Because I have a career in automotive product development, I do know what it would have taken to deliver a car that would have satisfied both you AND me. It was simple choices. That is all. Simple choices. GM chose to satisfy you but left out the few of us that had hoped for even more than what this great car is. It would have cost nothing to the program and added 50 to 100 pounds to have delivered a car that had the performance of the Gen6 but the ability to match or beat the Mustang in the great coupe attributes. I'm only sorry that your can't at a minimum see that some people would have liked a bigger trunk, lower lift over, better visibility and a little better rear seat room. Just as in politics, if you can't at least see the counter points and understand the other persons POV (doesn't mean you have to agree) you are stuck with simply trying to put the other person down.

I know I have 30 plus years in the business. I worked on C5, C6 and C7 Corvettes. I worked on Gen5 Camaros. My best friends on the planet and I spent hours over coffee trying to solve GMs problems. People who in their left pinky have more knowledge and experience than you or I will ever have.

But you keep coming here as if I'm criticizing YOUR car. I"M NOT. NOT, doing that. I love more than you have shown capability to understand the passion you have for your car.

But even more sadly (is that even a word?) is that you have no idea how excited I would be to meet you and talk about your Camaro. You really don't have a clue what it would mean to me. What you are seemingly unwilling to realize is that if the Camaro does not deliver on it's targets and GM could make more money on an SUV for Cadillac, the car would be killed. It's that simple. Is it in jeopardy? Nooooo, not even close at this point. But I was there in when I walked into a room and saw the next gen Camaro along with a Cadillac Sedan off of the same architecture. What was sad was that the Cadillac sedan came to be the 1st Gen CTS, while the F-body replacements never saw the light of day. Can you imagine, just for a second how maybe one of the biggest car enthusiasts in GM felt when the Camaro didn't make it? When you saw the plan? Can you imagine knowing that there was another program to replace the Camaro was going full speed ahead and that it didn't meet crash performance requirements and died? GM80 I think that program was called. Can you imagine working in the advanced stages of every GM program and knowing there WAS a Firebird replacement.............only to watch it die? I'm pretty sure you don't have a clue to how BAD that felt. You are not even close to understanding what I've seen and how close programs have come only to fail due to the business needs.

Did I mention how glad I would be to meet you and talk about how proud you are about your new Camaro? I really would. If you come anywhere close to Chicago with that car, I'd appreciate a PM.

Seriously!

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by Mikey LikesIt

Same here. I commute all around the SF Bay Area. Even I wouldn't mind seeing a few more 6th gens.

You must be mistaking them for the 5th gens then, which happens. I see a good average of 5 a day now in the southbay, sometimes more.

[TheReaper]

I've only seen 3 on the streets where I live.

[detltu]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Love this car. It's underperforming. That's pretty obvious compared to the other two benchmarks and the beloved 5th gen.

...
GM is very clearly holding pat to whatever play they are running. And if it makes you even happier that fewer are on the road great. I actually secretly love the fact that I RARELY see an SS on the road. When I do, it's actually a treat. But the fact is the car is a sales disaster. But it's also likely GM is actually making money on the car. Not much mind you.

I seem to be in the minority hoping the car sells. I really wish it outsold the Mustang. Anyone trying ignore sales as a key barometer of the goodness of a car is kidding themselves. It's important. And if you invest a lot of money in developing a car and it's variants, you need to at least hit your planning volumes or you are eating into the profitability of the car. That is also pretty straight forward.

...

Am I putting too much hope in the Camaro selling in droves? Maybe that too.

I think some of the things i have underlined are what rub people the wrong way. It's not a fact that the car is a sales disaster. Some people have pointed that out to you and others and that seems to go against the narrative. It's a fact that it's not selling as well as the mustang or 5th gen and has even struggled to keep up with the Challenger. These are not good things but they don't equal sales disaster. If the sales are enough that the Camaro is profitable (and we don't really know that) then it is not a sales disaster. Slightly profitable doesn't mean sales are sufficient and everyone is happy. I get that. I personally like he 5th gen volumes. Lower level cars are abundant and the higher trim cars are still rare.

The ATS and CTS sales are much more troubling.