[Number 3]

Originally Posted by MR's 2SS

My wife has been driving Infinitys for 3 leases now. A sedan with 3.2 V-6 a Coupe with 3.2 V-6 and a Mini SUV with 3.2 V-6. The sedan and coupe were front engine rear drive dominant all wheel drive cars. Handled nicely and went pretty much like hell. Not compared to Camaro but nice cars. The QX 50 is front engine/front wheel dominant all wheel drive. Not a terrible vehicle. But I feel the front drive pulling the car all over on the highway. I just dont like the way that feels. Now Infinity no longer see fit to put a 6 in their smaller SUV. So sorry... not interested. The new Q-60 is a really nice car. 3.0 I think but now twin turbo... It runs great but I need to question long term reliability. Plus you could buy a Vette for what they cost. The Infinity dealership has been the best vehicle dealer I ever dealt with in my life. No kidding. I called them from the Chevy dealer and told them how much I regret that their company has made some decisions that put me off and even though I felt like I was cheating on my wife I was buying a Camaro.
All the dealer lots are full of 4 cyl toasters. And they are well into the 40s if not over 50 thousand dollars. And yes they are selling them. Not to enthusiasts though. Mostly leases Im sure. 3 years. Beat hell out of it. give it back.
Thats all I can see as the future of EVs. Appliances. Might be fun to drive. I drove some go carts at an indoor cart course with my kid when he was young and they were electric. Went like hell. I had a blast. So its possible.
But the obama administration leveraged GM into building the Volt. They built them. Someone here indicated they had fun driving one. It seems like a pretty good kind of cool looking instrament of transportation.
But nobody wanted them. The ones that sold did so with huge company discounts. They were sold at a loss. Because the public is not interested. And they have a long way to go before they change that in the market.
I see lots of Teslas in very affluent left leaning areas of North Jersey. They mostly make a political statement. Most modest income people who just need to get to work can not afford the price of entry.

Lol he government did not leverage GM to build the Volt. The government DID however encourage GM to do a major refresh on the Corvette which became the C7 and a new FST. Both had been skinnied down to almost minor programs. The government asked “well what do you make money on?”. GM’s response? “ ummmmmm Full Size Trucks and Corvettes”. Governments response? “You need to do those.” Both instantly went from scaled down programs to full blown majors.

[RobertAvitia]

Am I the only one who’s sees this old concept???

[Malbjey]

Also can anyone quote a source on CA phasing out gas cars by 2025? It was mentioned a few times here a couple pages ago.



Everything I've seen online says the date is 2035. And that's for banning the sale of new gas vehicles. They will still be permitted to be owned and driven, and they can still be sold as used cars.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Malbjey

Also can anyone quote a source on CA phasing out gas cars by 2025? It was mentioned a few times here a couple pages ago.



Everything I've seen online says the date is 2035. And that's for banning the sale of new gas vehicles. They will still be permitted to be owned and driven, and they can still be sold as used cars.

Also, it’s an executive order. Not a law enacted by the of Kommiefornia Demokratische Republik. So just like every executive order we’ve seen, it can be easily changed/overruled/nullified by another governator or lawsuit.

Only if California’s state legislature enacts state legislation would it actually become a law.

[MR's 2SS]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Lol he government did not leverage GM to build the Volt. The government DID however encourage GM to do a major refresh on the Corvette which became the C7 and a new FST. Both had been skinnied down to almost minor programs. The government asked “well what do you make money on?”. GM’s response? “ ummmmmm Full Size Trucks and Corvettes”. Governments response? “You need to do those.” Both instantly went from scaled down programs to full blown majors.

https://www.americanprogress.org/iss...ucing-oil-use/

Lipstick on a pig then.... obvious BS in retrospect. A glowing assessment of a whole lot of nothing that now in 2021 appears to have been smoke and mirrors at best.
Plus.... this is why car lots are full of 4 cyl cars that are not selling well.
Apparently building cars that do not sell is responsible for tremendous job growth as well.
But with pending climate change oriented law making on the near horizon the only way to have corporate average fuel economy is EVs and 4 cyl engines in vehicles too big to perform well with inadequate cubes to weight ratios.
If legislating unobtainable fuel economy standards isnt leveraging EVs I dont know what is.

[Realist]

I don’t see GM being able to offer a 7th Gen EV Camaro for $60k or less. And at that high end, it probably won’t offer all the bells and whistles a $50k Camaro offers now. Seems like $100k is becoming the new norm.

I’m fine if we just let market demand meet EV needs. The issue I have it our Gov picking winners and losers. I’m sure the major Corp I contract with at times didn’t just install 14 plus EV chargers without some type of tax write off. It’s also concerning how each Manufacturer in the US gets $7500 or so to pass along to consumers (off the backs of other taxpayers) for the first 200000 vehicles. Not to mention all the lost gas tax revenue, environmental damage from installing the 500k charging stations the new Administration wants. Why not let the free market meet the needs of chargers and not overburden the already overburdened taypaying middle class. (Not really a question, just my thought).

[Fraxum]

You guys see this yet? This is what I was talking about.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/gm-ev-sales-2035/

[FarmerFran]

That seems aggressive but it is 15 years, and that is a long time in terms of things. I mean look at 15 years ago, and 15 before that and so on.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Realist

I don’t see GM being able to offer a 7th Gen EV Camaro for $60k or less. And at that high end, it probably won’t offer all the bells and whistles a $50k Camaro offers now. Seems like $100k is becoming the new norm.



I’m fine if we just let market demand meet EV needs. The issue I have it our Gov picking winners and losers. I’m sure the major Corp I contract with at times didn’t just install 14 plus EV chargers without some type of tax write off. It’s also concerning how each Manufacturer in the US gets $7500 or so to pass along to consumers (off the backs of other taxpayers) for the first 200000 vehicles. Not to mention all the lost gas tax revenue, environmental damage from installing the 500k charging stations the new Administration wants. Why not let the free market meet the needs of chargers and not overburden the already overburdened taypaying middle class. (Not really a question, just my thought).

That's exactly it.

I actually looked at the Bolt price yesterday. The Premier costs CAN$50k. I think you can buy a bare bone 1SS Camaro for that money, while my friend's Mazda6 2.5T which offers similar performance costs less.

An EV Camaro, with the current tech to offer SS performance, would probably be in the CAN$70k range.

I did watch a video on the Bolt. Interesting car, actually. The electric motor is tiny, but there are tons and tons of controllers.

Sent from toaster or something

[Hops]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

That's exactly it.
I actually looked at the Bolt price yesterday. The Premier costs CAN$50k. I think you can buy a bare bone 1SS Camaro for that money, while my friend's Mazda6 2.5T which offers similar performance costs less.

I too laughed at the msrp price of the Bolt last year being close to what i paid for my ss, but now i'm seeing them at the same dealer for like $21k US after being $25k for some months. At that price, i'd definitely seriously consider it if i was in the market. But i doubt GM is making a profit at that price.

[Number 3]

As of today we are on the clock

Check out this article from Detroit Free Press:

GM hopes to eliminate gas vehicles, have all-electric portfolio by 2040

https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...es/4290489001/

[cellsafemode]

the sooner the better. I want my first electric pony car to be matured a bit and i dont plan on needing to replace my 2016 for another 5-10 years. so if it's been out for like 4-5+ years by the time i go to buy it ...awesome.


2 second 0-60 times and sub 10 second quarter miles and low center of gravity for excellent cornering ...and the ability to have that kind of performance when i want it without including an exhaust that attracts the attention of cops when i'm just putzing around parking lots. Yes.

bonus points if the motor and motor controller is modular (crate-ish style) - opening up aftermarket options that totally destroy the warranty. Assuming hell froze over and they dont lock everything down with proprietary non-standard stuff and encrypted communications.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

2 second 0-60 times and sub 10 second quarter miles and low center of gravity for excellent cornering

Flat cornering - don't forget that you need to frame this with respect to the car's weight - isn't the same thing as good handling.

Work at it hard enough and yeah, you can get a heavy EV to run at least decent skidpad numbers - I'm talking decent for the street here, 0.9x-ish, not the kind of sustained readings you can see in a track environment with the tires fully warmed up (let alone any peak g numbers or R-comp capability). But that doesn't mean it won't feel a bit heavy and somewhat unsatisfying to actually force it to run them.

Nimble, it's not likely to be unless you resort to even more electronic trickery that removes the driver still further from the driving.


Norm

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Flat cornering - don't forget that you need to frame this with respect to the car's weight - isn't the same thing as good handling.

Work at it hard enough and yeah, you can get a heavy EV to run at least decent skidpad numbers - I'm talking decent for the street here, 0.9x-ish, not the kind of sustained readings you can see in a track environment with the tires fully warmed up (let alone any peak g numbers or R-comp capability). But that doesn't mean it won't feel a bit heavy and somewhat unsatisfying to actually force it to run them.

Nimble, it's not likely to be unless you resort to even more electronic trickery that removes the driver still further from the driving.


Norm

The current camaro weighs the same as a Model 3. There's no reason to think GM can't convert the camaro into electric and not increase it's current weight at all. While simultaneously having lower center of g.