Let Us Argue Amongst Ourselves - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Biergut · 11-29-2019, 03:47 PM

Is the Gen5 Z/28 the most track focused production car GM has ever produced?

I'm not talking horsepower or even lowest lap times... I'm talking from the bits and bites, the bushings and bearings, the differentials and coolers... is it thee most focused car that GM has ever produced when having a "TRACK" dedicated automobile that takes the abuse with less maintenance and fewer headaches than all the others?

CAMARO_HEAVEN · 11-29-2019, 05:29 PM

Eventhough I am a gen 2,3,4, and 5 Z28 owner.
I would say the gen 5 and 6 COPO is the most track capable atomobile GM has ever put into production.
I also know that it is not street legal you did say production and I do believe it is or would be counted as one.
John

j o n · 11-29-2019, 06:35 PM

Zl1 1le is more track focused and advanced than our z/28.

Dssv shock technology alone is more advanced than than ours. As well as the suspension bushings, aero, and hp

pat_t · 11-30-2019, 01:48 AM

Jon,

I definitely think the ZLE 1LE is LESS track focussed. Yes it is faster and has the developments in technology that you have mentioned...

But it also has Aircon, Power Seats, Sat Nav, Proper Stereo, Cup holders, sound deadening, standard thickness window glass, etc etc

If they did a version without that stuff.. then sure I'd consider it more track focused than a Z28.

Road cars as focussed as the Z28 in my opinion: GT3 RS Porsche models, Renaultsport Megane R26R and 182 Clio Trophy, Gallardo Superleggera, VW Golf GT Clubsport S, BMW E90 M3 GTS. Not many others.

Anything that comes with a full cage in as a road car has a fair shout in my opinion!

joelster · 11-30-2019, 07:36 AM

You could argue that the 3rd gen 1LE was more track focused since its entire purpose was to put parts into the hands of race teams that needed them.

LateBrakeU2 · 11-30-2019, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelster

You could argue that the 3rd gen 1LE was more track focused since its entire purpose was to put parts into the hands of race teams that needed them.

The gen 5 Z won back to back CTSCC championships against Ford, Porsche, Bmw etc. The ZLE is an amazing car,but it's not an analog beast like the Z/28 (which only came with three pedals)

j o n · 11-30-2019, 12:20 PM

All good points.

I still think GM took learnings from the Z/28 and made it a better track focused car.
-ddsv shocks
-bushings
-aero
-steel v carbon brakes
-lt4 motor w/ cooling learnings from c7 z06

Don't care about luxuries included or not. Stick v auto.. don't care in my view. Car v car... Track car focus is that zl1 1le.

C7 Zr1 is even more track focused than it.

IOMZL1 · 11-30-2019, 10:13 PM

It is hard for me to justify any supercharged car as being more track focused than a naturally aspirated car - adding a few hundred pounds of weight right where it doesn't need to be. Chevrolet has gone there because of emissions and the HP wars, and of course, they've made it work, and have made the track times quicker. This is basically the reason GM has finally gone mid engine Vette - can't make the power and meet emissions while improving track times with a front engine car. Imagine putting a 550 HP NA engine in the 6th Gen 1LE, which is rumored to be what would have happened IF the budget wasn't cut. That would no doubt be more track focused than the 5th gen Z/28.

For any gen Camaro has there ever been something more dedicated to track performance - sales be damned - than the 5th gen Z/28? I'd argue no. Of course the Z/28 has some deficits that the ZL1LE improved upon but I think the SC engine is more of a compromise that outweighs the other benefits.

John_C · 11-30-2019, 11:55 PM

IMHO

The more track focused car is the one that crosses the finish line first, regardless of lack of creature comforters or exotic super expensive materials.

But if you want to FEEL like you're in a more track focused car because you're sweating on a hot summer day from lack of AC, then by all means go for it.

Once we past stock vs stock, it ends up who's bank account is the fattest.

Palutz · 12-01-2019, 04:38 AM

Z/28 > ZL1 1LE ... Audio/AC was the only option available to check off.

Both cars are amazing creatures and they both dominated the competition on the track. I just prefer a NA engine so I’m biased

serviceguy · 12-01-2019, 09:01 AM

HoodCheck · 12-01-2019, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John_C

IMHO

The more track focused car is the one that crosses the finish line first, regardless of lack of creature comforters or exotic super expensive materials.

But if you want to FEEL like you're in a more track focused car because you're sweating on a hot summer day from lack of AC, then by all means go for it.

Once we past stock vs stock, it ends up who's bank account is the fattest.

99.9% of all Z/28s had AC and a stereo. The only option available was a package with both, as it was a bit over $1200 bucks, so pretty much everyone ordered with it. Now you know...

Gary B · 12-01-2019, 12:06 PM

Track focused is track performance regardless of comforts. 1 ZR1 2 ZL1 1LE 3 Z/28 Personal opinion....Z/28....

Biergut · 12-01-2019, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pat_t

Jon,

I definitely think the ZLE 1LE is LESS track focussed. Yes it is faster and has the developments in technology that you have mentioned...

But it also has Aircon, Power Seats, Sat Nav, Proper Stereo, Cup holders, sound deadening, standard thickness window glass, etc etc

If they did a version without that stuff.. then sure I'd consider it more track focused than a Z28.

Road cars as focussed as the Z28 in my opinion: GT3 RS Porsche models, Renaultsport Megane R26R and 182 Clio Trophy, Gallardo Superleggera, VW Golf GT Clubsport S, BMW E90 M3 GTS. Not many others.

Anything that comes with a full cage in as a road car has a fair shout in my opinion!

Agree 100%.

Had a student at Watkins Glen this past summer who had a '18 ZL1 1LE and we were able to go back and forth for two days in a direct comparison -- while he loved his ZL1 1LE (so did I) he couldn't help noticing and mentioning the raw track only attitude of the Z/28. And as only those who own them know, the Z/28 is harsher, grittier and more analog than the ZL1 1LE.

There is no doubt the ZL1 1LE has been smoothed out and softened up for daily street duty. The Z/28 has no time for any of that sh*t.

Like I opened with -- we all KNOW there are faster lapping cars, but IMO there has been no other track only focused GM car ever built when it comes to parts being designed, manufactured and standing up to the severe use environment of the track -- it is it's only purpose.

Production numbers and the way they sold (or lack thereof) somewhat bear that out.

11-29-2019, 03:47 PM	#1
Biergut Drives: '15 Z/28 Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: NJ Posts: 412	Let Us Argue Amongst Ourselves Is the Gen5 Z/28 the most track focused production car GM has ever produced? I'm not talking horsepower or even lowest lap times... I'm talking from the bits and bites, the bushings and bearings, the differentials and coolers... is it thee most focused car that GM has ever produced when having a "TRACK" dedicated automobile that takes the abuse with less maintenance and fewer headaches than all the others?

11-29-2019, 06:35 PM	#3
j o n Drives: 2015 Z/28 #0058 Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 814	Zl1 1le is more track focused and advanced than our z/28. Dssv shock technology alone is more advanced than than ours. As well as the suspension bushings, aero, and hp __________________ Current: - '15 Z/28 #0058 \| White \| A/C \| Speakers \| Michelin PS4S 305/30/19's - '22 Ridgeline RTL \| White \| Ebony, '22 CR-V EX-L Hybrid \| White \| Ebony Sold: - '15 Z/28 #0048 \| White \| A/C \| Speakers \| Michelin PS4S 305/30/19's https://www.instagram.com/__jon__athan__/

11-30-2019, 07:36 AM	#5
joelster Drives: '94 Z28+ '15 Z/28 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Cheektowaga, NY Posts: 1,280	You could argue that the 3rd gen 1LE was more track focused since its entire purpose was to put parts into the hands of race teams that needed them. __________________ 1973 Mach 1, 351C cruiser '15 Z/28 Red Hot, A/C 1980 Z28- resto-mod project 1979 Y84 Trans Am 1986 IROC-Z

11-30-2019, 12:20 PM	#7
j o n Drives: 2015 Z/28 #0058 Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 814	All good points. I still think GM took learnings from the Z/28 and made it a better track focused car. -ddsv shocks -bushings -aero -steel v carbon brakes -lt4 motor w/ cooling learnings from c7 z06 Don't care about luxuries included or not. Stick v auto.. don't care in my view. Car v car... Track car focus is that zl1 1le. C7 Zr1 is even more track focused than it. __________________ Current: - '15 Z/28 #0058 \| White \| A/C \| Speakers \| Michelin PS4S 305/30/19's - '22 Ridgeline RTL \| White \| Ebony, '22 CR-V EX-L Hybrid \| White \| Ebony Sold: - '15 Z/28 #0048 \| White \| A/C \| Speakers \| Michelin PS4S 305/30/19's https://www.instagram.com/__jon__athan__/

11-30-2019, 10:13 PM	#8
IOMZL1 Drives: 2015 Z/28 \| 2017 Viper ACR Extreme Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Brownsburg Posts: 1,009	It is hard for me to justify any supercharged car as being more track focused than a naturally aspirated car - adding a few hundred pounds of weight right where it doesn't need to be. Chevrolet has gone there because of emissions and the HP wars, and of course, they've made it work, and have made the track times quicker. This is basically the reason GM has finally gone mid engine Vette - can't make the power and meet emissions while improving track times with a front engine car. Imagine putting a 550 HP NA engine in the 6th Gen 1LE, which is rumored to be what would have happened IF the budget wasn't cut. That would no doubt be more track focused than the 5th gen Z/28. For any gen Camaro has there ever been something more dedicated to track performance - sales be damned - than the 5th gen Z/28? I'd argue no. Of course the Z/28 has some deficits that the ZL1LE improved upon but I think the SC engine is more of a compromise that outweighs the other benefits. __________________ dougshelbyengineering.com www.facebook.com/dougshelbyengineering www.instagram.com/dougshelbyengineering

11-29-2019, 05:29 PM	#2
CAMARO_HEAVEN Big John Drives: Wife 2013 Camaro 2SSRS / ME? Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Kentucky Posts: 336	Eventhough I am a gen 2,3,4, and 5 Z28 owner. I would say the gen 5 and 6 COPO is the most track capable atomobile GM has ever put into production. I also know that it is not street legal you did say production and I do believe it is or would be counted as one. John

11-30-2019, 01:48 AM	#4
pat_t Drives: . Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: . Posts: 589	Jon, I definitely think the ZLE 1LE is LESS track focussed. Yes it is faster and has the developments in technology that you have mentioned... But it also has Aircon, Power Seats, Sat Nav, Proper Stereo, Cup holders, sound deadening, standard thickness window glass, etc etc If they did a version without that stuff.. then sure I'd consider it more track focused than a Z28. Road cars as focussed as the Z28 in my opinion: GT3 RS Porsche models, Renaultsport Megane R26R and 182 Clio Trophy, Gallardo Superleggera, VW Golf GT Clubsport S, BMW E90 M3 GTS. Not many others. Anything that comes with a full cage in as a road car has a fair shout in my opinion!

11-30-2019, 11:55 PM	#9
John_C LSx FTW!!! Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS RS Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: TN Posts: 767	IMHO The more track focused car is the one that crosses the finish line first, regardless of lack of creature comforters or exotic super expensive materials. But if you want to FEEL like you're in a more track focused car because you're sweating on a hot summer day from lack of AC, then by all means go for it. Once we past stock vs stock, it ends up who's bank account is the fattest. __________________ 2010 2SS RS A6 781rwhp on E85 Stage 2 ProCharger D1X Circle D 3400 Triple Disc Kooks Jet Hot Headers Kooks Full 3in exhaust Trick Flow GenX 255's Polished PAC .660's & Ti-retainers TSP VVT 3.2 cam kit w/DoD Delete Smith Bro's Trunnion kit AEM X-Series OBDII Widebands FIC ID1300x Injectors GM ZL1 High Output Fuel Pump DSX Tuning Flex Sensor DSX Auxiliary Fuel System Tim King Stage 4 Max Effort CTSV 6L90 DSS 1 piece aluminum driveshaft JRE 6L80E / 6L90E Dipstick NGK Iridium IX spark plugs #7 heat range Mighty Mouse Camaro 5 Wild w/-12an and Billet Black HP Tuners VCM Suite

12-01-2019, 04:38 AM	#10
Palutz Banned Drives: 22 ZLE M6 Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Corpus Christi Posts: 601	Z/28 > ZL1 1LE ... Audio/AC was the only option available to check off. Both cars are amazing creatures and they both dominated the competition on the track. I just prefer a NA engine so I’m biased

12-01-2019, 09:01 AM	#11
serviceguy Drives: 2014 Z/28 # 89, 69 Camaro, 2013 ZL1 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Flint MI Posts: 669

12-01-2019, 12:06 PM	#13
Gary B Drives: Subaru Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Ct. Posts: 573	Track focused is track performance regardless of comforts. 1 ZR1 2 ZL1 1LE 3 Z/28 Personal opinion....Z/28.... __________________ Time for a new ride soon....6th Gen or 5th Gen Z28? Hmmm....