[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by gtfoxy

If GM did 1/4 of that testing & pre-production analysis we wouldn’t be seeing near the failure rate of current because they would have caught the issue early before these engines made their way into vehicles. It’s not like they didn’t have months due to “OMG COVID” during that time to thoroughly test the engines.

How do you know that they don't do testing? Because what I've been told is that engines do get tested before they are installed.

[slimjim2525]

Originally Posted by ember1205

What makes you think your car is bulletproof? What makes you believe that this issue isn't rectified in current and future builds?

Problems can arise anywhere, at any time. And sometimes they take a very long time to recognize and correct. It seems that this issue was the result of supplies being used to make the springs, it was caught fairly early, and is being corrected as it is found to be an actual problem "in the wild." GM is not still building this motor with the bad parts (that they are aware of)....

No car is bullet proof. Problems can happen at any time. But, the current problem is with the 20 and 21 models because of a supply problem. The facts here are what they are.

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by gtfoxy

I know Polaris tests EVERY engine that leaves their production facility prior to installation. Does GM? If no then, yes, that QC is superior regardless of quantity.

Of course they test every engine before the car leaves the plant! I guess you really don't know what you're talking about. Also, every engine in every automobile sold these days is constantly testing itself. That is literally what OBD is all about!

Or perhaps you are the one that has no concept of how valve spring seat pressure, open pressure @ max lift & subsequent durability can be easily evaluated by nominal test equipment available to manufacturers. You do know there is equipment that does that, right? I mean because aftermarket valve train suppliers do this in batches, & they’re small peanuts compared to GM.

Uhhh, yeah. And GM doesn't test every valve spring they install in a motor. Neither does any valve spring manufacturer test every spring they sell. But even if they did, it's very unlikely this problem would have shown up as an issue with spring pressures. Obviously something went wrong with a batch, and GM is repairing the problems. And if you think Polaris has 1/10th the quality control and testing that GM has for its motors, well, you're just really ignorant.

[95 imp]

Bad news, ALL the engines are cycle tested at the engine plant. Just because they are doesn't mean that nothing will ever go wrong. That's why you have a warranty.

In this case, the engine failed due to a faulty batch of parts. This is not GM's fault. Blame the spring manufacturer, or the steel company.

The motor got rebuilt. GM did it in a timely manner and honored the warranty. What more can you ask for?

The irony in all this is that everyone is crying that GM engine plant quality is poor, but they want a replacement engine FROM THE SAME PLANT.

And, they also say a motor HAS to come from the plant over having a GM certified tech HAND build the motor. There are metal fragments everywhere in that engine. It HAS to be completely tore down, cleaned, inspected and rebuilt.

These are the same guys who drool over an aftermarket builder's hand built 416, super cam, blower deluxe motor who took a core engine and.... REBUILT IT!

And, before you point a finger, my car was built in the TSB area too. I have 45xx on the clock and have wound the motor out at the track and street without issue thus far.

If it does pop, I would try to talk the dealer into slipping the HOT cam in with the rebuild and have it all warrantied. (Even if it were a few $$ out of pocket)

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by slimjim2525

No car is bullet proof. Problems can happen at any time. But, the current problem is with the 20 and 21 models because of a supply problem. The facts here are what they are.

As long as we're talking facts, this statement is not really accurate...

The problem exists in SOME 6.2L V8 engines built within about a 100 day window of time and used in a variety of vehicles. These may be of the 2020 or 2021 model year, depending on specifics.

My car is a 2020 and has no such issue as most 2020 models will not. Given the slow start that GM is off to post-shutdown from the pandemic, I would also imagine that the TOTAL percentage of vehicles that will be sold as 2021 models will not be affected. Once production is able to ramp back up and dealer lots can be replenished properly, these cars will quickly become the minority percentage of ones that were built with the problem springs.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

Bad news, ALL the engines are cycle tested at the engine plant. Just because they are doesn't mean that nothing will ever go wrong. That's why you have a warranty.

In this case, the engine failed due to a faulty batch of parts. This is not GM's fault. Blame the spring manufacturer, or the steel company.

The motor got rebuilt. GM did it in a timely manner and honored the warranty. What more can you ask for?

The irony in all this is that everyone is crying that GM engine plant quality is poor, but they want a replacement engine FROM THE SAME PLANT.

And, they also say a motor HAS to come from the plant over having a GM certified tech HAND build the motor. There are metal fragments everywhere in that engine. It HAS to be completely tore down, cleaned, inspected and rebuilt.

These are the same guys who drool over an aftermarket builder's hand built 416, super cam, blower deluxe motor who took a core engine and.... REBUILT IT!

And, before you point a finger, my car was built in the TSB area too. I have 45xx on the clock and have wound the motor out at the track and street without issue thus far.

If it does pop, I would try to talk the dealer into slipping the HOT cam in with the rebuild and have it all warrantied. (Even if it were a few $$ out of pocket)

While there's a certain amount of good logic in this, the fact remains that A) certified technicians are not engine builders and B) GM isn't going to pay to completely tear down a motor every single time to ensure things are perfect.

People build a reputation as an egine builder and that's all they do. They hone a specialized craft. Certified Technicians are very good at what they do, but they don't do things like rebuilding engines with enough frequency to be experts at it. Being certified includes a lot of training and testing, but without the "lather, rinse, repeat" for something, it doesn't become hard-wired in quite the same way as for someone who does nothing BUT build engines.

[Venomcustom]

Originally Posted by ember1205

While there's a certain amount of good logic in this, the fact remains that A) certified technicians are not engine builders and B) GM isn't going to pay to completely tear down a motor every single time to ensure things are perfect.

People build a reputation as an egine builder and that's all they do. They hone a specialized craft. Certified Technicians are very good at what they do, but they don't do things like rebuilding engines with enough frequency to be experts at it. Being certified includes a lot of training and testing, but without the "lather, rinse, repeat" for something, it doesn't become hard-wired in quite the same way as for someone who does nothing BUT build engines.

Facts.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by ember1205

While there's a certain amount of good logic in this, the fact remains that A) certified technicians are not engine builders and B) GM isn't going to pay to completely tear down a motor every single time to ensure things are perfect.

People build a reputation as an egine builder and that's all they do. They hone a specialized craft. Certified Technicians are very good at what they do, but they don't do things like rebuilding engines with enough frequency to be experts at it. Being certified includes a lot of training and testing, but without the "lather, rinse, repeat" for something, it doesn't become hard-wired in quite the same way as for someone who does nothing BUT build engines.

Originally Posted by Venomcustom

Facts.

Solid facts indeed. Not exactly apples to apples though as one you pay for and and the other is paid for by GM under warranty.

[Venomcustom]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Solid facts indeed. Not exactly apples to apples though as one you pay for and and the other is paid for by GM under warranty.

Agreed but which would you rather have. A new engine or one rebuilt at the dealer. This is why I’d be a little nervous of a dealership rebuilt engine.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

In this case, the engine failed due to a faulty batch of parts. This is not GM's fault. Blame the spring manufacturer, or the steel company.

Wrong.

It doesn’t matter to the customer who is at fault. General Motors name is on it - it’s up to GM to take care of the customer properly up front and then battle with whoever is at fault behind the scenes.

Taking care of the customer means ordering a full scale recall of every engine with the batch of suspected defective valve springs, sending a letter to every owner advising them to stop driving their car, provide full towing and loaner free of charge, and replace every valve spring in every engine with new ones verified to meet tolerances.

Anything less is unacceptable and not negotiable. Next step is to get a lawyer involved and for this it would be worth every penny. GM must be forced to issue a full recall of every LT-series motor made with these valve springs if they won’t do it themselves.

It actually appalls me that you or anyone would defend GM or any company in this situation.

You do NOT wait for them to break and then go about a full rebuild/replacement of the entire engine.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Venomcustom

Agreed but which would you rather have. A new engine or one rebuilt at the dealer. This is why I’d be a little nervous of a dealership rebuilt engine.

Neither would make me feel better. If my engine just popped, I would be nervous no matter what.

[Venomcustom]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Neither would make me feel better. If my engine just popped, I would be nervous no matter what.

Again, I agree in a perfect world. That said if you HAD to pick. Lol.

[FH212]

Is there a certain mileage that they seem to fail at? Just wondering if there is a point that if it hasn't gone by this xxxx mileage your probably fine.?

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Neither would make me feel better. If my engine just popped, I would be nervous no matter what.

Since GM knows the build dates of the affected engines, they wouldn't replace a failed one with another one built with the same suspect parts. Chances of a replacement engine having a major failure for any reason should be extremely low.