[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Maybe in the future they should have specific teams that work on the higher up vehicles. I find that people tend to do a better job when they know (or think) they are working on a more important project. It probably would cost too much to do that tho.


Or maybe the difference between quality and durability. A lot of the issues with Dodge seem to pop up over time. For example, my fuel cap cover faded/peeled after a year and a half. A more durable product would not have after such a short period of time. I do think that GM and FCA pays more attention to how the vehicle looks before it leaves the factory. GM pays more attention to how the vehicle is down the road. Overall I do think GM is better at quality, durability, reliability, etc. Ford kinda just takes the approach that if you have a problem then the warranty will come in handy. FCA's issue seems to be more along the money side of things. They went cheap on a lot of stuff so that is why they are not as durable.

Still tho, it sucks when your super expensive car that you paid a markup on before it even arrived at the dealership shows up with defects and then has to spend several weeks in the shop to fix. Or when it happens several times and the manufacturer has to buy the vehicle back from you. I get it that these things happen. But it seems to happen more with Ford.

Good point. A lot of companies have QRD departments. Quality, Reliability, and Durability. With Quality, there are also different dimensions. Perceptual Quality and Material Quality. For me it goes a little something like this...

• Perceptual Quality: Body panels line up straight, with consistent, narrow gaps. Paint is consistent and evenly applied.
• Material Quality: Surfaces the occupants touch are soft leather or alcantara, not hard plastic. Parts that are plastic are at least attractively grained. High feature content (heated, ventilated seats, wireless charging, Apple/Android apps)
• Reliability: All that feature content works, all the time. Things that do go wrong with time are easily remedied by the dealer or independent service outlets.
• Durability:Anybody ever own a late ‘80s / early ‘90s Grand Prix / Regal? Brakes every 20,000 miles? That would be the opposite of durability.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

Don't pay markup, that is just flushing money down the toilet.

Corvette is just as bad as Ford. Camaro seems to do better, but Corvette has serious QC issues.

Agree about the markup thing. That is just plain stupid to pay extra. I swear, I will not ever buy a car if a markup is involved.

As far as QC. Some things are universal. Like, a headliner hanging low...or paint issues. Those issues are sometimes things that might not be discovered until down the road. But things like an emblem being put on backwards and on the wrong side of the car, that is just plain IDGAF-attitude. That is unacceptable on any car let alone one as expensive as this. If it is a Mustang or Camaro costing over $70K, then each of them should have someone giving it a once over as a final inspection before it leaves.

[shogun37]

And yet when the Jap/German/Korean companies hire gap-tooth hicks from the back country, they are able to produce $25,000 cars that look aces better than something costing $60,000 out of the rust belt.

Detroit doesn't believe in enforcing quality - from inception/CAD/tolerancing, to pattern making, to paint, to alignment, to execution in any of the various forms.

It is truly despicable.

[Baldilocks01SS]

Originally Posted by shogun37

And yet when the Jap/German/Korean companies hire gap-tooth hicks from the back country, they are able to produce $25,000 cars that look aces better than something costing $60,000 out of the rust belt.

Detroit doesn't believe in enforcing quality - from inception/CAD/tolerancing, to pattern making, to paint, to alignment, to execution in any of the various forms.

It is truly despicable.

Because shareholders profits drive American car companies more than anything else.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Baldilocks01SS

Because shareholders profits drive ALL companies more than anything else.

[Baldilocks01SS]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Well, not ALL. There are still a few small car companies who are still focused more on delivering maximum performance, luxury, etc. Eventually they all forget their roots.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Baldilocks01SS

Well, not ALL. There are still a few small car companies who are still focused more on delivering maximum performance, luxury, etc. Eventually they all forget their roots.

Luckily those efforts lead to higher share prices, and the second they don't they will change course immediately.

[Martinjlm]

Readers Digest version.... SP is not happy with the short tire life and the thirsty fuel consumption on track days. Otherwise, cool car. Car will be up for sale. He already sold the black Base + Handling Pack car as the CFTP was on its way to him. Keeping the C8, though.

https://youtu.be/7TNUPUxNcHM

[jvandy50]

I was reading in their FB group and a guy said he got 7-8 laps of hard driving on Road America before he needed more fuel. Ive never been there, but that sounds pretty crazy to me.

I know personally, I’ve enjoyed my extra fuel capacity in this camaro, compared to my 2 S550s. Running e85 in them increased the trips to the gas station even more, feels like the camaro has a 50gal tank lol.

[ZRacerLE]

I'm going through 1/4 tank every 10 minutes with the ZLE.

[BlaqWhole]

I think we get pretty decent gas mileage for what these cars and and what they can do. Even after modding the Hellcat I still get decent MPGs. I haven't done any comparisons yet. But it seems like a full tank lasts as long now that I have 766 RWHP as it did when I was stock with an intake. I'm not noticing any difference at all.

[ST1LE]

Haven't had much VS topics to discuss, things sorta died down after the GT500 came out things seemed to fizzle.

Back to comparisons though........I never thought I would say this, but the widebody hellcat challenger is really growing on me and I haven't even test driven one yet. It just makes such glorious sounds and seems great for a DD, with incentives and lease offers being out of this world.

I am about a year away, and stuck between three cars. Challenger Hellcat WB M6, ZL1 M6, or the most practical decision financially speaking is an SS 1LE.

Car will likely rarely see the track, I just like my cars very sorted even if I dont drive them aggressively. Roads here aren't great either, but I will also have an SUV so Im not sure that matters.

I know a few of you(Blaq) have both. If you had to choose one?

[Z OH 6]

I own three of these four cars so I can tell you my experience.

The C8 feels the most confident when pushing hard through turns, its low center of gravity and mid engine make the car feel really planted, just point the front of the car where you want to go and it goes there. It lacks a little power compared to the Hellcat and even the ZL1 to some degree, a 600+hp C8 should perform very well.

The Hellcat doesn't feel like a huge car until you've driven something smaller, lighter and more nimble. In fact, the Hellcat handles far better than a 4400+lb car should and it stops well too. Where the Hellcat really shines is comfort, its roomy on the inside for all 4 passengers, trunk space is huge, and its great for taking on long trips. When it comes to drag racing, this is the best platform of the three. Not only did Dodge give you a good size blower to work with, but port injection makes it easy to add E85 or more boost without running out of fuel. Its just a Helluva a lot cheaper to make a Hellcat go in the 9's in the 1/4 than a C8 or ZL1. Once I got my ZL1, driving the Hellcat feels like a big heavy car. I can see now why people call them boats. You don't realize it until you drive something else and then get into the Hellcat, that being said, it doesn't take any of the fun or charm away from the Hellcat, its an experience like no other and always puts a big grin on your face when your smashing the throttle.

That brings me to the ZL1, the numbers say this car actually handles slightly better than a C8, that might be true but it doesn't feel like its quite as easy to throw around as the C8 but that doesn't mean its lacking either. It feels heavier than the C8 and more upright. Since this car has a blower its easier to make it quicker than the C8 for drag racing but not as easy as the Hellcat. I feel like the ZL1 is a good cross between a Hellcat and C8 in performance.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Haven't had much VS topics to discuss, things sorta died down after the GT500 came out things seemed to fizzle.

Back to comparisons though........I never thought I would say this, but the widebody hellcat challenger is really growing on me and I haven't even test driven one yet. It just makes such glorious sounds and seems great for a DD, with incentives and lease offers being out of this world.

I am about a year away, and stuck between three cars. Challenger Hellcat WB M6, ZL1 M6, or the most practical decision financially speaking is an SS 1LE.

Car will likely rarely see the track, I just like my cars very sorted even if I dont drive them aggressively. Roads here aren't great either, but I will also have an SUV so Im not sure that matters.

I know a few of you(Blaq) have both. If you had to choose one?

I came from a Hellcat and I will say that it is absolutely a better day to day street car if that is what you are after. Z OH 6 nails it on the head below! If you aren't going to track it (i tried to track the kitty) there is no great reason to buy the Camaro over a Hellcat. This is probably the main reason the Camaro sells the worst in the segment also...

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

I own three of these four cars so I can tell you my experience.

The C8 feels the most confident when pushing hard through turns, its low center of gravity and mid engine make the car feel really planted, just point the front of the car where you want to go and it goes there. It lacks a little power compared to the Hellcat and even the ZL1 to some degree, a 600+hp C8 should perform very well.

The Hellcat doesn't feel like a huge car until you've driven something smaller, lighter and more nimble. In fact, the Hellcat handles far better than a 4400+lb car should and it stops well too. Where the Hellcat really shines is comfort, its roomy on the inside for all 4 passengers, trunk space is huge, and its great for taking on long trips. When it comes to drag racing, this is the best platform of the three. Not only did Dodge give you a good size blower to work with, but port injection makes it easy to add E85 or more boost without running out of fuel. Its just a Helluva a lot cheaper to make a Hellcat go in the 9's in the 1/4 than a C8 or ZL1. Once I got my ZL1, driving the Hellcat feels like a big heavy car. I can see now why people call them boats. You don't realize it until you drive something else and then get into the Hellcat, that being said, it doesn't take any of the fun or charm away from the Hellcat, its an experience like no other and always puts a big grin on your face when your smashing the throttle.

That brings me to the ZL1, the numbers say this car actually handles slightly better than a C8, that might be true but it doesn't feel like its quite as easy to throw around as the C8 but that doesn't mean its lacking either. It feels heavier than the C8 and more upright. Since this car has a blower its easier to make it quicker than the C8 for drag racing but not as easy as the Hellcat. I feel like the ZL1 is a good cross between a Hellcat and C8 in performance.

You nail the descriptions

I haven't driven a C8 and while 100% bone stock to stock tires it will win most of the drag races between these 4, as soon as you throw some drag radials on the other 3 that changes. Pulls the ZL1 about equal to C8 in the 1/4 and the GT500 and Hellcat pull ahead. The Hellcat almost shouldn't be driven with the stock tires it's so laughable. I never bought a set of DRs for mine before i traded it in, but a set of Nitto 555Rs is most owners first purchase "mod". And that's usually all it takes to get an auto Hellcat into the 10s.