Copper free brake option 2022 - Page 4

TrackClub · 09-21-2022, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdmanf16

2018 zl1 with brembo pads vs. 2022 zl1 1le with copper brembos is the same on the track. Both out brake 90% of the cars out there. The copper brakes work great

Well said

Funny how some folks just need to jump on anything "new" as it is viewed as an automatic improvement. But, reality is, this change was not done by GM to improve performance, but to comply with new environmental law in 2 states. Also funny, how some folks spend thousands to REDUCE rotating mass and buy AP brakes (as an example), yet others will spend $ on heavier components and call it a "win".
Oh well. As long as it all leads to having fun: it is all good!
Rant out

Cheers!

cdb95z28 · 09-21-2022, 06:23 PM

About 2 weeks ago I put the ZL1 HP1000 pads on my BCD SS 1LE. There was improvement over the copper free pads. I immediately felt better initial bite, a more firm pedal and better friction. I did a track day on Monday and a TNIA yesterday with the HP1000s and they have a better friction curve than the copper free pads. The friction did not fall off like the copper free pads. The ABS was happy. GM was forced to make this change to develop the copper free system. They did pretty darn good with the options they had. I never had any problems on track with the copper free pads, I just wanted a certain feel more than anything. Some drivers might not care or even notice the copper free performance difference. Especially if they had never driven a Gen5/6/Corvette with the HP1000s or a race pad. I drove 5 years or so with ST43s on my Gen5 1LE, so I was spoiled.

YMMV on the HP1000 swap. This does not come without risk. As noted in my previous posts in this thread there is a difference in the annulus between the copper free and HP1000 front pads. The resulting larger cold ring may create stress at the rotor due to the temperature gradient. This would be an even greater concern with something more aggressive then the HP1000s. I will monitor my rotors. But as it stands right now. I found my pad of choice for my style and track (Pitt Race). The HP1000s had zero issues and look to be wearing better than the copper free pads.

If Ferodo could just come out with the correct pad shape in the DS2500 and DS1.11, that would be perfect.

TrackClub · 09-21-2022, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdb95z28

About 2 weeks ago I put the ZL1 HP1000 pads on my BCD SS 1LE. There was improvement over the copper free pads. I immediately felt better initial bite, a more firm pedal and better friction. I did a track day on Monday and a TNIA yesterday with the HP1000s and they have a better friction curve than the copper free pads. The friction did not fall off like the copper free pads. The ABS was happy. GM was forced to make this change to develop the copper free system. They did pretty darn good with the options they had. I never had any problems on track with the copper free pads, I just wanted a certain feel more than anything. Some drivers might not care or even notice the copper free performance difference. Especially if they had never driven a Gen5/6/Corvette with the HP1000s or a race pad. I drove 5 years or so with ST43s on my Gen5 1LE, so I was spoiled.

YMMV on the HP1000 swap. This does not come without risk. As noted in my previous posts in this thread there is a difference in the annulus between the copper free and HP1000 front pads. The resulting larger cold ring may create stress at the rotor due to the temperature gradient. This would be an even greater concern with something more aggressive then the HP1000s. I will monitor my rotors. But as it stands right now. I found my pad of choice for my style and track (Pitt Race). The HP1000s had zero issues and look to be wearing better than the copper free pads.

If Ferodo could just come out with the correct pad shape in the DS2500 and DS1.11, that would be perfect.

Ferodo does make 2500 and 1.11 for 1LE. Amongst others. But perhaps you were referring to the new larger sizes of non copper brakes? Sorry, not sure what your car has as stock.

cdb95z28 · 09-21-2022, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdb95z28

About 2 weeks ago I put the ZL1 HP1000 pads on my BCD SS 1LE. There was improvement over the copper free pads. I immediately felt better initial bite, a more firm pedal and better friction. I did a track day on Monday and a TNIA yesterday with the HP1000s and they have a better friction curve than the copper free pads. The friction did not fall off like the copper free pads. The ABS was happy. GM was forced to make this change to develop the copper free system. They did pretty darn good with the options they had. I never had any problems on track with the copper free pads, I just wanted a certain feel more than anything. Some drivers might not care or even notice the copper free performance difference. Especially if they had never driven a Gen5/6/Corvette with the HP1000s or a race pad. I drove 5 years or so with ST43s on my Gen5 1LE, so I was spoiled.

YMMV on the HP1000 swap. This does not come without risk. As noted in my previous posts in this thread there is a difference in the annulus between the copper free and HP1000 front pads. The resulting larger cold ring may create stress at the rotor due to the temperature gradient. This would be an even greater concern with something more aggressive then the HP1000s. I will monitor my rotors. But as it stands right now. I found my pad of choice for my style and track (Pitt Race). The HP1000s had zero issues and look to be wearing better than the copper free pads.

If Ferodo could just come out with the correct pad shape in the DS2500 and DS1.11, that would be perfect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Ferodo does make 2500 and 1.11 for 1LE. Amongst others. But perhaps you were referring to the new larger sizes of non copper brakes? Sorry, not sure what your car has as stock.

Yeah, my car is the BCD copper free. The BCD copper free front pad is not the same as the typical SS 1LE pad.

TrackClub · 09-22-2022, 07:18 AM

Got ya. Thanks!

RUQWIKR · 09-22-2022, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdb95z28

Yeah, my car is the BCD copper free. The BCD copper free front pad is not the same as the typical SS 1LE pad.

I just threw some regular J6H pads in there on my 22 SS 1LE with BCD literally the first few days I had the car. A bit of a cold ring, but, no issues on track thus far. Of course, it's not the validated combo. I have DS2500 and 1.11's that I'll try, too.

TrackClub · 09-22-2022, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RUQWIKR

I just threw some regular J6H pads in there on my 22 SS 1LE with BCD literally the first few days I had the car. A bit of a cold ring, but, no issues on track thus far. Of course, it's not the validated combo. I have DS2500 and 1.11's that I'll try, too.

Hey ya got a new ride? Nice!

Voltwings · 10-19-2022, 03:01 PM

Just throwing my .02 in the ring here after my first track day in my 22 1LE with copper free brakes.

I actually started searching threads because of how bad the pads were to see if I was crazy. It was 90+ out and I did not experience any fade, but I found the bite SEVERLY lacking. It's a stock pad and I know you can't have your cake and eat it too, but I was having to move my braking zones about 50 yards back from what I was expecting because the car just wasn't stopping.

It will hopefully be a lot cooler the next time we go out, and I'll try to give the pads an honest assessment in better conditions but yeah... not a fan so far. Glad to have the bigger rotors for more heat capacity, because I abused them and they didn't bat an eye... they just didn't stop either haha.

JBones81 · 10-19-2022, 03:51 PM

For tracking, throw out my 2 cents here, because I only drive on the streets. However, these zl1 brakes are probably the best brakes I've ever experienced on a factory stock car. They stop amazingly well. I have the copper free pads. I even have aftermarket brakes on the rs3 and the zl1 stops noticeably better.

cdb95z28 · 10-19-2022, 06:51 PM

I've installed a set of the DS2500 pads on my BCD SS 1LE. Front: FCP5030H, Rear: FCP1348H.

I had 1000 total miles on the previously installed HP1000s, 300 of that was track time. While the HP1000s were an improvement over the copper free pads, I still wanted a little more pad. It's not that the HP1000s are lacking, I just wanted to try the DS2500s.

I did not give my rotors a fresh surface for the DS2500, I just threw them on and I felt a more stiff pedal, more initial bite and overall more friction. They are a slight improvement over the HP1000s. I will be trying them out on track this weekend.

I'm going to monitor the wear, just to see if the higher cost of the DS2500s are worth it over the HP1000s.

RUQWIKR · 10-19-2022, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdb95z28

I've installed a set of the DS2500 pads on my BCD SS 1LE. Front: FCP5030H, Rear: FCP1348H.

I had 1000 total miles on the previously installed HP1000s, 300 of that was track time. While the HP1000s were an improvement over the copper free pads, I still wanted a little more pad. It's not that the HP1000s are lacking, I just wanted to try the DS2500s.

I did not give my rotors a fresh surface for the DS2500, I just threw them on and I felt a more stiff pedal, more initial bite and overall more friction. They are a slight improvement over the HP1000s. I will be trying them out on track this weekend.

I'm going to monitor the wear, just to see if the higher cost of the DS2500s are worth it over the HP1000s.

I did the same. On the street, no noise. On the track, they feel somewhat better than the HP1000's for bite, modulation, overall friction, and heat resistance. However, for the price, hard to beat new or take off used HP1000's.

Voltwings · 10-20-2022, 09:53 AM

My car is brand new, so I may just kill these pads for what they're worth and then try something like the HP-1000. I need to do more reading, because apparently the Copper Free are a match for the Ct5v Blackwing as well, so maybe those pads will work vs the HP-1000.

Appreciate everyone's input on this.

wrankin · 12-19-2022, 05:53 AM

Following

Bill

Sephx1 · 12-19-2022, 08:15 PM

Good information in this thread, I will be switching to 18’s for track use so the non-BCD brakes is what I have and will continue to use.

I can’t help but find it amusing that GM comes out with bigger brakes to get the same performance without copper, and people order the option then toss the pads in favor of - well, copper. Not that I blame them, I would too if I was looking for the best performance I could get from them.

Not wanting to whistle past the graveyard, I saw a post in a group on this subject where we were discussing where this legislation was heading. Keep an eye on the availability of these pads in the future, it might not be just California and Washington.

Here is long but informative video by the EPA on why this is being mandated:

https://youtu.be/m9Bd66Qcj0M

09-21-2022, 06:23 PM	#44
cdb95z28 Drives: 2022 1SS 1LE A10 BCD WCT+PDR Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Johnstown, PA Posts: 3,203	About 2 weeks ago I put the ZL1 HP1000 pads on my BCD SS 1LE. There was improvement over the copper free pads. I immediately felt better initial bite, a more firm pedal and better friction. I did a track day on Monday and a TNIA yesterday with the HP1000s and they have a better friction curve than the copper free pads. The friction did not fall off like the copper free pads. The ABS was happy. GM was forced to make this change to develop the copper free system. They did pretty darn good with the options they had. I never had any problems on track with the copper free pads, I just wanted a certain feel more than anything. Some drivers might not care or even notice the copper free performance difference. Especially if they had never driven a Gen5/6/Corvette with the HP1000s or a race pad. I drove 5 years or so with ST43s on my Gen5 1LE, so I was spoiled. YMMV on the HP1000 swap. This does not come without risk. As noted in my previous posts in this thread there is a difference in the annulus between the copper free and HP1000 front pads. The resulting larger cold ring may create stress at the rotor due to the temperature gradient. This would be an even greater concern with something more aggressive then the HP1000s. I will monitor my rotors. But as it stands right now. I found my pad of choice for my style and track (Pitt Race). The HP1000s had zero issues and look to be wearing better than the copper free pads. If Ferodo could just come out with the correct pad shape in the DS2500 and DS1.11, that would be perfect. __________________ 2022 1SS 1LE A10 BCD WCT+PDR2014 1SS 1LE NPP RECARO SIM-SOLD1995 Z28 M6 GSC PGM-SOLD1975 NOVA COUPE 300HP 350 TH350 FLASH RED-SOLD

10-19-2022, 03:51 PM	#51
JBones81 Drives: 22 ZL1, 18 RS3, 22 M3P Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Walnut Creek, CA Posts: 936 View My Garage	For tracking, throw out my 2 cents here, because I only drive on the streets. However, these zl1 brakes are probably the best brakes I've ever experienced on a factory stock car. They stop amazingly well. I have the copper free pads. I even have aftermarket brakes on the rs3 and the zl1 stops noticeably better. __________________ 2022 ZL1 - M6, Wrapped, Tinted, Rotofab intake, MBRP AxleBack, Lots of BMR rear suspension components 2022 Tesla Model 3 Performance 2018 Audi RS3 - Many mods & e85 Instagram - @JBsCars

10-19-2022, 06:51 PM	#52
cdb95z28 Drives: 2022 1SS 1LE A10 BCD WCT+PDR Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Johnstown, PA Posts: 3,203	I've installed a set of the DS2500 pads on my BCD SS 1LE. Front: FCP5030H, Rear: FCP1348H. I had 1000 total miles on the previously installed HP1000s, 300 of that was track time. While the HP1000s were an improvement over the copper free pads, I still wanted a little more pad. It's not that the HP1000s are lacking, I just wanted to try the DS2500s. I did not give my rotors a fresh surface for the DS2500, I just threw them on and I felt a more stiff pedal, more initial bite and overall more friction. They are a slight improvement over the HP1000s. I will be trying them out on track this weekend. I'm going to monitor the wear, just to see if the higher cost of the DS2500s are worth it over the HP1000s. __________________ 2022 1SS 1LE A10 BCD WCT+PDR2014 1SS 1LE NPP RECARO SIM-SOLD1995 Z28 M6 GSC PGM-SOLD1975 NOVA COUPE 300HP 350 TH350 FLASH RED-SOLD

12-19-2022, 05:53 AM	#55
wrankin Camaros Of Northwest Ohio Drives: 2016 Black 2SS Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Perrysburg OH Posts: 878 View My Garage	Following Bill __________________ 2023 2SS 1LE Red Hot 2016 2SS Black / Black & Arenaline Red (sold) 2023 GMC Canyon Denali 2013 2SS / RS - AGM / Jet Black (sold) 1970 1/2 Z/28 Classic Copper / Tan (sold many years ago)

09-22-2022, 07:18 AM	#47
TrackClub Drives: 2020 SS 1LE (previous: 2017 SS 1LE) Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Canada, eh! Posts: 5,091	Got ya. Thanks!

10-19-2022, 03:01 PM	#50
Voltwings Drives: 22 1SS 1LE Join Date: Aug 2022 Location: Houston Posts: 11	Just throwing my .02 in the ring here after my first track day in my 22 1LE with copper free brakes. I actually started searching threads because of how bad the pads were to see if I was crazy. It was 90+ out and I did not experience any fade, but I found the bite SEVERLY lacking. It's a stock pad and I know you can't have your cake and eat it too, but I was having to move my braking zones about 50 yards back from what I was expecting because the car just wasn't stopping. It will hopefully be a lot cooler the next time we go out, and I'll try to give the pads an honest assessment in better conditions but yeah... not a fan so far. Glad to have the bigger rotors for more heat capacity, because I abused them and they didn't bat an eye... they just didn't stop either haha.

10-20-2022, 09:53 AM	#54
Voltwings Drives: 22 1SS 1LE Join Date: Aug 2022 Location: Houston Posts: 11	My car is brand new, so I may just kill these pads for what they're worth and then try something like the HP-1000. I need to do more reading, because apparently the Copper Free are a match for the Ct5v Blackwing as well, so maybe those pads will work vs the HP-1000. Appreciate everyone's input on this.

12-19-2022, 08:15 PM	#56
Sephx1 Drives: 18 ZLE, 18 SS1LE, 16 SS, 23 ZL1 Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Phoenix Arizona Posts: 414	Good information in this thread, I will be switching to 18’s for track use so the non-BCD brakes is what I have and will continue to use. I can’t help but find it amusing that GM comes out with bigger brakes to get the same performance without copper, and people order the option then toss the pads in favor of - well, copper. Not that I blame them, I would too if I was looking for the best performance I could get from them. Not wanting to whistle past the graveyard, I saw a post in a group on this subject where we were discussing where this legislation was heading. Keep an eye on the availability of these pads in the future, it might not be just California and Washington. Here is long but informative video by the EPA on why this is being mandated: https://youtu.be/m9Bd66Qcj0M

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