[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Most of this is false.

The Mach 1 is not just a PP2 with a Tremec, GT350 intake, and stickers. It also shares some chassis parts with the GT350 and GT500, and obviously has the coolers necessary for extended track work.

But is it worth $58K with an OTD price over $60K when compared to other cars in that same price range? It isn't a GEETEE treefiddy or a GEETEE fi hunid. It is a GEETEE with parts from here and there. But it has more in common with the GEETEE than with the other Mustnags. So it is more GEETEE than anything else. At over $60K I'm in a ZL1 or a Hellcat. Or even a C8. Each of those cars are in the 11s bone stock and have options for some features that are not even available on Mustnags at all. And each of those cars will destroy the Mach1. So is it worth the money?

Again, comparing it with other Frods and from a bone stock standpoint, if you wanted the newest and fastest semi-affordable Mustnag then that is what you are stuck with.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

LOL, WOW!! It's only $1000 for a brand new one. Surely you aren't telling me it is THAT expensive that you had to resort to porting yours. I had one on my 15. With the matching TB. LOL!! You Ford guys make me laugh man.

No, you're missing the rest of the story. Adding a GT350 IM also requires the larger Bullitt 87 mm TB. The larger TB in turn requires an aftermarket tune. I wanted to keep my factory tune for warranty reasons. Porting the OEM parts has no effect on drivetrain warranty.

That said, the ported GT350 IM and ported Bullitt TB would have been around $1,500 + tune + tuning hardware, totaling probably $2,200, give or take. Vs. $410 for my OEM ported stuff.

That combo would have yielded more hp (due to the porting work), and higher average hp, making the car quicker. But I didn't want to spend an additional $1,800 for those items, plus a tune potentially causing issues w/ future warranty work.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

But is it worth $58K with an OTD price over $60K when compared to other cars in that same price range? It isn't a GEETEE treefiddy or a GEETEE fi hunid. It is a GEETEE with parts from here and there. But it has more in common with the GEETEE than with the other Mustnags. So it is more GEETEE than anything else. At over $60K I'm in a ZL1 or a Hellcat. Or even a C8. Each of those cars are in the 11s bone stock and have options for some features that are not even available on Mustnags at all. And each of those cars will destroy the Mach1. So is it worth the money?

Again, comparing it with other Frods and from a bone stock standpoint, if you wanted the newest and fastest semi-affordable Mustnag then that is what you are stuck with.

A 2SS 1LE A10 is $53.1k. The Mach 1 base starts at $52.9k. It isn't featureless; I believe it comes with features similar to the Bullitt w/ the digital dash and likely all the GT Premium features, possibly the premium plus which adds other niceties - but honestly I'm not sure exactly off the top of my head.

Mach 1 + A10 = $54.5k w/ destination
2SS 1LE + A10 = $53.1k w/ destination

Subtract $1.6k from both for the manual versions.

You get 25 more hp for the extra cost; whether or not that shows up very well in tests - we'll see - it didn't seem to help the Bullitt, which went 12.6 @ 115 mph like every other '18+ GT PP1 M6 test due to the MT82 gear ratio choices Ford made. Maybe the Tremec will remedy that issue.

I'd say the differences are somewhat marginal. Pick your poison.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

No, you're missing the rest of the story. Adding a GT350 IM also requires the larger Bullitt 87 mm TB. The larger TB in turn requires an aftermarket tune. I wanted to keep my factory tune for warranty reasons. Porting the OEM parts has no effect on drivetrain warranty.

That said, the ported GT350 IM and ported Bullitt TB would have been around $1,500 + tune + tuning hardware, totaling probably $2,200, give or take. Vs. $410 for my OEM ported stuff.

That combo would have yielded more hp (due to the porting work), and higher average hp, making the car quicker. But I didn't want to spend an additional $1,800 for those items, plus a tune potentially causing issues w/ future warranty work.

Actually you can use the stock GT TB on the GT350 IM. I did that on my 15. I bought a used IM and TB for $1000. I bought a used DS I3 tuner for $200. My previous 5th Gen tuner ran me some tunes for free. But normally it would have been around $200. So yea, not $2200. At most $1400. And each of those items could be resold for exactly what you buy them for used. When I was done with my GT I took everything off and sold it for what I bought it for.

For the record, running a ported IM on a stock tune is not recommended. I never even considered that because it is just a waste of money. At least with the GT350 IM you can increase to RPM limit to 7800 provided you have upgraded OPGs. I ran mine to 7500 easily.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

A 2SS 1LE A10 is $53.1k. The Mach 1 base starts at $52.9k. It isn't featureless; I believe it comes with features similar to the Bullitt w/ the digital dash and likely all the GT Premium features, possibly the premium plus which adds other niceties - but honestly I'm not sure exactly off the top of my head.

Mach 1 + A10 = $54.5k w/ destination
2SS 1LE + A10 = $53.1k w/ destination

Subtract $1.6k from both for the manual versions.

You get 25 more hp for the extra cost; whether or not that shows up very well in tests - we'll see - it didn't seem to help the Bullitt, which went 12.6 @ 115 mph like every other '18+ GT PP1 M6 test due to the MT82 gear ratio choices Ford made. Maybe the Tremec will remedy that issue.

I'd say the differences are somewhat marginal. Pick your poison.

At $53K you're getting a pretty much fully optioned 2SS. At $52K you're scraping the bottom of the Mach1 barrel. And even at the full blown price there will be more features and options on the much cheaper SS than the Mach1. Some features included won't even be available for the Mach1. And it is not going to outperform the SLE or the SS for that matter. And once again you are at the back door of ZL1 pricing once you get to high $50K. So it is not a good value.

The Mach1 offers nothing over the GT that would merit such a price hike. I could see in the New Edge days when the Mach1 was far and away a superior car over the GT. There was no comparing the two. Not by looks, features, performance, anything. These days if you went with a Manual trans GT Premium vs a manual trans Mach1 all you'd get out of the Mach is a color scheme, emblems, a vanishing 20 extra hp, the same ET down the quarter, and remarkably even less features. In fact, yet again here is another Mustang in the $60K range that is gonna get walked by the standard base model $30K GT in the quarter. LOL!! $28K for a slower car that has 20 more HP. Throw the Premium at the GT and the Mach will be more expensive, more HP, slower, and have less features.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Actually you can use the stock GT TB on the GT350 IM. I did that on my 15. I bought a used IM and TB for $1000. I bought a used DS I3 tuner for $200. My previous 5th Gen tuner ran me some tunes for free. But normally it would have been around $200. So yea, not $2200. At most $1400. And each of those items could be resold for exactly what you buy them for used. When I was done with my GT I took everything off and sold it for what I bought it for.

For the record, running a ported IM on a stock tune is not recommended. I never even considered that because it is just a waste of money. At least with the GT350 IM you can increase to RPM limit to 7800 provided you have upgraded OPGs. I ran mine to 7500 easily.

The computer can compensate for the increased airflow from the ported IM and TB. I carefully chose my bolt ons and they do work. I've done multiple tests prior to any weight reduction (except for the 19 lbs the Borla catback exhaust saved over the stock catback) and my car's acceleration with the addition of the ported IM, TB, and Borla S type catback improved by 7+% over my tests with a K&N CAI only (which by itself improved MAF readings significantly and added hp over the stock airbox). Since then, I've removed an additional ~60-70 lbs, with 36 lbs of that being wheel weight (which equates to more than 1:1 lbs ratio of removing weight for acceleration and braking).

Anyway, my car is at least 10% quicker, if not more, than a stock A10 GT PP1 now from a roll, and saving that much weight has helped responsiveness and handling as well. I really like having the MagneRide so I can change the damper firmess if I happen to be on a bumpy road.

As a side note - I live at an elev. of about 2,700 feet; I saw the DA in my City was 500' this morning, so I just took the 'Stang out for a spin by myself - holy smokes. The last time I drove it I had a passenger and DA of 4000'. What a difference the low DA makes.

Anyway, enjoy your Sunday...

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

A 2SS 1LE A10 is $53.1k. The Mach 1 base starts at $52.9k. It isn't featureless; I believe it comes with features similar to the Bullitt w/ the digital dash and likely all the GT Premium features, possibly the premium plus which adds other niceties - but honestly I'm not sure exactly off the top of my head.

Mach 1 + A10 = $54.5k w/ destination
2SS 1LE + A10 = $53.1k w/ destination

Subtract $1.6k from both for the manual versions.

You get 25 more hp for the extra cost; whether or not that shows up very well in tests - we'll see - it didn't seem to help the Bullitt, which went 12.6 @ 115 mph like every other '18+ GT PP1 M6 test due to the MT82 gear ratio choices Ford made. Maybe the Tremec will remedy that issue.

I'd say the differences are somewhat marginal. Pick your poison.

The Mach 1 is a really nice car, IMO the best S550 Mustang offered yet. GT350 takes it in looks though, but thats one of the best looking cars I have seen. Looks best with the HP, the extra aero looks aggressive and the wheels are freaking awesome. Better stance than the PP2 also, so they did a good job overall I think designing this Mach 1.

Its great to see the Tremec, or anything worth rowing, finally go in a 5.0 Mustang too, and the coolers!!

I will test drive one of these before I buy for sure, it's damn nice and checks boxes Ford has left unchecked(for me) this entire generation until now. Would have to be a very aggressive negotiation to get me in one, anything above $50K and I'm just buying a used ZL1. It is close enough to try it out though, if nothing else it will be a nice test drive.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

The computer can compensate for the increased airflow from the ported IM and TB. I carefully chose my bolt ons and they do work. I've done multiple tests prior to any weight reduction (except for the 19 lbs the Borla catback exhaust saved over the stock catback) and my car's acceleration with the addition of the ported IM, TB, and Borla S type catback improved by 7+% over my tests with a K&N CAI only (which by itself improved MAF readings significantly and added hp over the stock airbox). Since then, I've removed an additional ~60-70 lbs, with 36 lbs of that being wheel weight (which equates to more than 1:1 lbs ratio of removing weight for acceleration and braking).

Anyway, my car is at least 10% quicker, if not more, than a stock A10 GT PP1 now from a roll, and saving that much weight has helped responsiveness and handling as well. I really like having the MagneRide so I can change the damper firmess if I happen to be on a bumpy road.

Exactly what kind of tests did you do? Would you happen to have any data or videos or comparisons with other GTs that you could share? Because I doubt that stock IM on the 18s were that restrictive that a simple port job gave you that much acceleration. If I remember, from what I read the 18s got a free-er flowing IM than the 15-17s did which actually helped shorten the gap with the GT350 IM. I doubt you would see results like that without a tune or any other mods.

[seethruya]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Regarding the GT350 vs 2018 Manifold: It's been proven on the Mustang forums that a GT350 intake manifold makes a quicker car than a ported '18 manifold. The GT350 manifold makes about the same peak hp as a ported 2018 GT manifold, but the GT350 mani has a flatter high rpm hp curve and therefore has a higher average hp in the top end, and actually accelerates quicker than the same car with a ported 2018 GT manifold.

I decided to just port my stock 2018 intake manifold because to go ported GT350 would have cost a lot more.

I speak from experience as a former 2016 GT owner. The 2018 GT IM vs GT350 IM has been debated ad nauseam. Every dyno comparison from a stock vehicle to heavily modded looks like the following. A toss-up. You are correct, the GT350 IM extends the powerband about 300rpms up top which is where it’s advantage is at.

I don’t think there’s ever been a 2018-2020 GT owner that’s gone with the GT350 manifold? 2015-2017 Mustangs owners with the Gen 2 Coyote, going with the GT350 manifold has became rare since the 18 GT manifold became readily available. As most came to the conclusion the GT350 IM doesn’t provide any benefit over the 18 GT IM while costing 5 times more.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Exactly what kind of tests did you do? Would you happen to have any data or videos or comparisons with other GTs that you could share? Because I doubt that stock IM on the 18s were that restrictive that a simple port job gave you that much acceleration. If I remember, from what I read the 18s got a free-er flowing IM than the 15-17s did which actually helped shorten the gap with the GT350 IM. I doubt you would see results like that without a tune or any other mods.

On board OBDLink MX+ measurements for both acceleration and MAF readings.

With the K&N intake only, I did 20-70 mph in 3.53 seconds. I never ran that test bone stock, but the MAF readings showed a pretty substantial pickup in mass airflow rate with the K&N intake.

With the K&N intake, Ported TB, ported IM, and Borla S type w/ Borla H pipe I did 20-70 mph in 3.28 seconds in a head wind (the previous one was with a side wind). The only changes being the ported TB, ported IM, and Borla catback. I have other acceleration runs where the data was similar. These are all on the same stretch of flat road.

Those tests were before the following additional changes I've done since then:
Lightweight wheels (saves 36 lbs rotational weight)
Other weight reduction mods totaling an additional 35ish lbs.
Lightweight aluminum water pump pulley

On the list for the future for wear items are lightweight front brake rotors (saves 19 lbs) and a lightweight battery (saves 23 lbs). I have a full interior so I've saved weight where I can that's reasonable. Things like removing the engine cover (4.5 lbs), replacing the stock GT strut tower brace with a GT350R aluminum Ford Performance one (saves almost 3 lbs), removing the sound tube (1 lbs), etc.

[Thill444]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

A 2SS 1LE A10 is $53.1k. The Mach 1 base starts at $52.9k. It isn't featureless; I believe it comes with features similar to the Bullitt w/ the digital dash and likely all the GT Premium features, possibly the premium plus which adds other niceties - but honestly I'm not sure exactly off the top of my head.

Mach 1 + A10 = $54.5k w/ destination
2SS 1LE + A10 = $53.1k w/ destination

Subtract $1.6k from both for the manual versions.

You get 25 more hp for the extra cost; whether or not that shows up very well in tests - we'll see - it didn't seem to help the Bullitt, which went 12.6 @ 115 mph like every other '18+ GT PP1 M6 test due to the MT82 gear ratio choices Ford made. Maybe the Tremec will remedy that issue.

I'd say the differences are somewhat marginal. Pick your poison.

The handling pack pushes the Mach1 +A10 to close to $59K. The other observation being that you can usually discount a Camaro $3K+ all day long and I doubt Ford dealers will offer much of any type of discount on the Mach1 (at least for awhile) and we know many will want ADM. Real world pricing will mean a big price difference. And if you look at the price difference between a 1SS1LE? It’s a huge number. I mean basically you could buy a new SS1LE and have $10-15K or so for mods.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by seethruya

I speak from experience as a former 2016 GT owner. The 2018 GT IM vs GT350 IM has been debated ad nauseam. Every dyno comparison from a stock vehicle to heavily modded looks like the following. A toss-up. You are correct, the GT350 IM extends the powerband about 300rpms up top which is where it’s advantage is at.

I don’t think there’s ever been a 2018-2020 GT owner that’s gone with the GT350 manifold? 2015-2017 Mustangs owners with the Gen 2 Coyote, going with the GT350 manifold has became rare since the 18 GT manifold became readily available. As most came to the conclusion the GT350 IM doesn’t provide any benefit over the 18 GT IM while costing 5 times more.

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

On board OBDLink MX+ measurements for both acceleration and MAF readings.

With the K&N intake only, I did 20-70 mph in 3.53 seconds. I never ran that test bone stock, but the MAF readings showed a pretty substantial pickup in mass airflow rate with the K&N intake.

With the K&N intake, Ported TB, ported IM, and Borla S type w/ Borla H pipe I did 20-70 mph in 3.28 seconds in a head wind (the previous one was with a side wind). The only changes being the ported TB, ported IM, and Borla catback. I have other acceleration runs where the data was similar. These are all on the same stretch of flat road.

Those tests were before the following additional changes I've done since then:
Lightweight wheels (saves 36 lbs rotational weight)
Other weight reduction mods totaling an additional 35ish lbs.
Lightweight aluminum water pump pulley

On the list for the future for wear items are lightweight front brake rotors (saves 19 lbs) and a lightweight battery (saves 23 lbs). I have a full interior so I've saved weight where I can that's reasonable. Things like removing the engine cover (4.5 lbs), replacing the stock GT strut tower brace with a GT350R aluminum Ford Performance one (saves almost 3 lbs), removing the sound tube (1 lbs), etc.

So porting your IM and TB gave you 3 tenths of a second 0-60?? And you're making 549 RWHP?? (Why do I even waste my time with this BS?)

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

So porting your IM and TB gave you 3 tenths of a second 0-60?? And you're making 549 RWHP?? (Why do I even waste my time with this BS?)

And the Borla catback. Those 3 mods gave me almost 3 tenths from 20-70 mph over K&N intake only. I don't know if I could improve 3 tenths 0-60 due to traction limitations on street tires. Probably 2 tenths, though. I did a stock 0-60 mph in 3.81 seconds with my cold weather Michelin pilot sport A/S 3+ tires last spring. After the few bolt ons at full weight I did a single 0-60 attempt and got 3.7 seconds, but that was my first and only attempt, no burnout, on the same A/S 3+ Michelin tires (exact same portion of road as the stock test). I'm sure with a few attempts I could have gotten down to 3.6 sec. pretty easily - the launch on the 3.7 sec. run was not nearly as good as the stock 3.81 sec. launch. Technique was power braking to about 2k rpm and modulating throttle through first gear before going WOT by about 25 mph.

Compared to stock, the few engine mods I've done combined with the weight loss is probably good for at least 4 tenths from 20-70 mph. Unfortunately, I didn't do stock weight and stock engine 20-70 mph tests to get a comparison.

For what it's worth, the mass airflow readings were 48.5 lbs/min bone stock, average from four separate WOT runs, and negating a few higher outliers. With the bolt ons MAF readings are ~53 lbs/min. average from several separate WOT runs. A general rule of thumb is 10 crank hp per lbs/min MAF for NA engines (supercharged engines are less due to the hp required to run the supercharger); assuming that rule of thumb, the car was about 485 crank hp stock, and 530 crank hp now. That may seem a little high but those are the MAF values from the computer.

I have roll raced a friend's '19 GT350 and put several cars on him 40-85 mph short shifting at only 7k rpm (500 rpm short of redline). I pulled away pretty steadily from 40+, but by 65+ mph I was pulling away hard. He and I generally just drive together on curvy mountain back roads and don't normally roll race. I joke with him I'll try to keep up in the turns, and for him to try to keep up in the straights.

I know one guy locally with an M6 ZL1, but not very well. If I get the chance I'll roll with him to see where my car is at compared to an M6 ZL1.

[gameovergt]

Originally Posted by seethruya

I speak from experience as a former 2016 GT owner. The 2018 GT IM vs GT350 IM has been debated ad nauseam. Every dyno comparison from a stock vehicle to heavily modded looks like the following. A toss-up. You are correct, the GT350 IM extends the powerband about 300rpms up top which is where it’s advantage is at.

I don’t think there’s ever been a 2018-2020 GT owner that’s gone with the GT350 manifold? 2015-2017 Mustangs owners with the Gen 2 Coyote, going with the GT350 manifold has became rare since the 18 GT manifold became readily available. As most came to the conclusion the GT350 IM doesn’t provide any benefit over the 18 GT IM while costing 5 times more.

a few swapped over to the 350 mani but not much difference. The ported stocker flows better than the 350. The cobra jet mani with the A10 is where the most have benefitted from.