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Old 02-01-2022, 08:56 AM   #1
ddipaola
 
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ZL1 1LE Spring Rate, Motion Ratio, and Ride Frequency Info

Greetings. I've been searching for a more street-friendly set of coilovers for my ZL1 1LE. Save the roast fest for later. Michigan roads are brutal! And they're no longer covered under warranty so I would rather save them for the track considering I haven't found a supplier willing to rebuild the Multimatic DSSVs in the case they blow out. I've ran across aftermarket suppliers offering downright silly spring rates across the board, so I decided to do my own research and determine the best spring rate to request for my desired goal.

I will keep everyone in touch this spring/summer with the results in terms of ride frequency & comfort. Comfort may not be your goal, but it will prove that I've got the right calcs/ratios for Frt/Rr spring rates & ride frequency.
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Old 02-01-2022, 09:09 AM   #2
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I threw the RS in there since it was my previous vehicle. As you can see, the 1LE has absolutely ridiculous spring rates / ride frequencies. Definitely a track car as advertised!
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Old 02-01-2022, 10:18 AM   #3
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Interesting stuff. On my S197 Mustang GT I had some aftermarket springs on it with 225 lb/in front rates, and 200 lb/in rears. It was stiffer than I'd have preferred for the street but still a bit soft for the track. Normally the S197 guys like 550 lb/in or stiffer up front depending on aero setup for the track so the ZLE is definitely right up there.
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Old 02-01-2022, 10:48 AM   #4
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reach out to terry at vorshlag i got from my mcs setup from him he can help i did 700 f / 800 r on my car
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Old 02-01-2022, 01:12 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by kropscamaro16 View Post
reach out to terry at vorshlag i got from my mcs setup from him he can help i did 700 f / 800 r on my car
Definitely stiff! I'm trying to find some information on the spring rate of the Base (non-1LE) ZL1s. If you happen to know those numbers please let me know.
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Old 02-01-2022, 01:19 PM   #6
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Fortune Auto recommended 6K (336ftlbs) FRT and 14K (784ftlbs) RR as their default street driving spring rate. I thought they were absolutely crazy. 4K and 10K IMO are plenty and will yield a conservative ride frequency.

I was debating swapping the springs out on the DSSV shocks but I don't believe there's a way to remove the upper cap.
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Old 02-01-2022, 01:35 PM   #7
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fortune auto bc megan racing godspeed silvers are all the same shit


if you are removing them to replace and have a better ride you want to at least look at mcs or jrz or jri they are all quality coilovers
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Old 02-01-2022, 02:22 PM   #8
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Question: where do these factory rates come from? That is, what's the source?

A few thoughts:

-Only the Camaro comparisons are completely valid, because we don't know the motion ratios of the other cars. Most likely the Mustang and Challenger are at least somewhat close, but I think the Focus probably has factory coilovers in back rather than inboard springs like the pony cars, so its motion ratio is probably pretty close to 1:1, like the fronts of all these cars.

-Remember, you square the motion ratio and multiply it by the spring rate to get the true wheel rate. On a ZLE, then, the wheel rate is .56*.56*1100, for a wheel rate of 345lb/in, vs about 450 for the front wheel rate.

-Are the rear springs on these aftermarket coilover kits also true coilovers? It looks like they are. Again, if so the rear motion ratio for them is significantly higher than stock, as the shock mounts outboard of the stock spring pocket (but not as far out as the knuckle).
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Old 02-01-2022, 03:03 PM   #9
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Look into Tractive coilovers from DSC/TPC Racing. They are about $6,500 before Uncle Sam gets his piece.

The damping can also be adjusted electronically on the fly. Another bonus is all 4 sides can be corner balanced.

Michigan roads are garbage compared to roads further south. The state can only do so much with the harsh winters which require constant salting.

The roads around me are much smoother and less of an issue with the ZLE. It also helps I'm on Michelin PS4S tires.
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Old 02-01-2022, 05:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddipaola View Post
Greetings. I've been searching for a more street-friendly set of coilovers for my ZL1 1LE. Save the roast fest for later. Michigan roads are brutal! And they're no longer covered under warranty so I would rather save them for the track considering I haven't found a supplier willing to rebuild the Multimatic DSSVs in the case they blow out. I've ran across aftermarket suppliers offering downright silly spring rates across the board, so I decided to do my own research and determine the best spring rate to request for my desired goal.

I will keep everyone in touch this spring/summer with the results in terms of ride frequency & comfort. Comfort may not be your goal, but it will prove that I've got the right calcs/ratios for Frt/Rr spring rates & ride frequency.
I'm pretty sure the SS 1LE rear rate is not correct (I think it's more around 500). I'm actually going to have a few springs checked out (SS 1LE rear, ZL1 rear and SS rear) once I can locate someone to check them. The ZL1 1LE is correct from everything I've gathered.

Something to keep in mind:
The Camaro GT4.R has three spring packages homologated to it...
Lite = 375/650
Medium = 550/650
Firm = 800/850
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Old 02-01-2022, 06:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain View Post
I'm pretty sure the SS 1LE rear rate is not correct (I think it's more around 500).
As quote above, the SS 1LE spring is 3x stiffer than the front, whereas the ZLE rear spring is only 2.4x stiffer. So you could be right. But...then the non-1LE SS rear spring is even stiffer than the SS 1LE! So that seems incorrect.

Quote:
Something to keep in mind:
The Camaro GT4.R has three spring packages homologated to it...
Lite = 375/650
Medium = 550/650
Firm = 800/850
Again though, I'm guessing those rears use true coilovers as opposed to the inboard/separate spring, right? So the rear spring rates are for a much higher motion ratio than either 1LE.
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Old 02-02-2022, 07:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msquared View Post
Question: where do these factory rates come from? That is, what's the source?

A few thoughts:

-Only the Camaro comparisons are completely valid, because we don't know the motion ratios of the other cars. Most likely the Mustang and Challenger are at least somewhat close, but I think the Focus probably has factory coilovers in back rather than inboard springs like the pony cars, so its motion ratio is probably pretty close to 1:1, like the fronts of all these cars.

-Remember, you square the motion ratio and multiply it by the spring rate to get the true wheel rate. On a ZLE, then, the wheel rate is .56*.56*1100, for a wheel rate of 345lb/in, vs about 450 for the front wheel rate.

-Are the rear springs on these aftermarket coilover kits also true coilovers? It looks like they are. Again, if so the rear motion ratio for them is significantly higher than stock, as the shock mounts outboard of the stock spring pocket (but not as far out as the knuckle).
All of the Ford car rates are actually from a published Ford document so those should be accurate. The Dodge vehicles were calculated using motion ration findings on the forums. The Camaro calcs were also done using motion ratio info found here on the forums. The spring rates for the Camaro SS were found on the forums, but the 1LE spring rates were found on YouTube from somebody with a spring rate measurement tool.

And good point on the aftermarket coilover comment though. I don't think they're true coilovers in the rear. Likely just the same as most low-end kits out there. Front coilover, rear shock with spring. I will have to confirm.
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Old 02-02-2022, 07:55 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain View Post
I'm pretty sure the SS 1LE rear rate is not correct (I think it's more around 500). I'm actually going to have a few springs checked out (SS 1LE rear, ZL1 rear and SS rear) once I can locate someone to check them. The ZL1 1LE is correct from everything I've gathered.

Something to keep in mind:
The Camaro GT4.R has three spring packages homologated to it...
Lite = 375/650
Medium = 550/650
Firm = 800/850
The SS base and 1LE rates were pulled right here off the forums. I found them hard to believe as well because they use the same suspension geometry. That seems to be the only data out there on the 1LE. I'll give the search another whirl though. I'm pretty sure it's a single-stage spring. If it was dual rate I could see the problem, but I think that's N/A here.
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Old 02-02-2022, 08:54 AM   #14
Msquared

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddipaola View Post
And good point on the aftermarket coilover comment though. I don't think they're true coilovers in the rear. Likely just the same as most low-end kits out there. Front coilover, rear shock with spring. I will have to confirm.
It occurred to me that we have a thread on the Silvers, and it clearly show that the spring is inboard of the shock in the rear, just as with stock.

However, we also have a thread on the MCS kit that Vorshlag is selling, and it clearly shows that the rear is indeed a true coilover setup instead of an inboard spring. So the motion ratio and appropriate spring rates are going to be very different.

Here's a video showing that the GT4.R options use true coilovers in the rear.

So it's just really important to know which configuration one is talking about when comparing rear spring rates. On that note, anybody know the motion ratio for the rear shock in a Camaro6?
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