[Msquared]

I would strongly suggest NOT putting any kind of lubricant or film or gasket between the wheel and rotor hat or between the rotor hat and hub. The wheel and hat both depend on the friction with each other and the hub face to stay in place. That's why a clean (but not lubricated) surface and proper lug nut torque is so important. If you put anything between those surfaces that reduces the coefficient of friction or, worse, compresses (like a gasket), then the total friction force goes way down and the result could be failed studs. Just clean the surfaces and reassemble.

[Whitespeed]

Originally Posted by Vtor_ZL1

Found it! Here is back of brake rotor hat - notice all the corrosion marks on the anodized surface.

Fair point that anodizing won't prevent corrosion indefinitely, particularly if the anodized surface is penetrated, which can initiate corrosion prematurely. However, what's shown in that picture is very minor. It would take a substantial amount to compromise the clamping friction between the hat and hub to the point that the rotor is going to be able to move around enough to generate noise. To reach that level, I suspect the service life of the rotor itself would be well exceeded.



Further, the ticking noise that's common with these cars is there right from the start. It may take a while for an owner to notice it because it can take significant cornering loads that may not be achieved on the street. But regardless, it's apparent when the parts are brand new before any kind of meaningful corrosion could have formed.


The root cause for the majority of cases has been identified as improperly torqued lug nuts from the factory along with a film of grease that they were applying between the rotor face and the wheel hub (which they've hopefully stopped doing). The loose, lubricated interface causes the wheel to shift around under cornering loads and from my observations of shiny spots on the hub pilot, the ticking noise is coming from the wheel striking the pilot as the wheel shifts around. As Msquared mentioned, lubricating the interface is not always a great idea.



Some people have been successful in eliminating the noise by simply fully torquing the wheel nuts. That made a meaningful improvement for me, but didn't eliminate it completely. I had to scrub the wheel and rotor interfaces spotlessly clean with lacquer thinner to get rid of the sound once and for all. That was years ago and it's never returned.

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by Whitespeed

The root cause for the majority of cases has been identified as improperly torqued lug nuts from the factory along with a film of grease that they were applying between the rotor face and the wheel hub (which they've hopefully stopped doing).

Ironically, that grease was probably applied to minimize corrosion at that location while the car was being transported.

The loose, lubricated interface causes the wheel to shift around under cornering loads and from my observations of shiny spots on the hub pilot, the ticking noise is coming from the wheel striking the pilot as the wheel shifts around.

That's great tech! It's also pretty scary. It means that wheel is also putting shear loads on the studs, which is an invitation for stud failure.

There is a TSB for this, and it says to clean everything thoroughly including the use of Scotchbrite pads. Then put a film of lube on just the hub pilot, and reassemble. I wouldn't even bother with the lube on the pilot: there is no reason the wheel should ever move on the pilot if the mating surfaces are clean and the lug nuts are properly torqued.

[Christian1LE]

Originally Posted by Msquared

I would strongly suggest NOT putting any kind of lubricant or film or gasket between the wheel and rotor hat or between the rotor hat and hub. The wheel and hat both depend on the friction with each other and the hub face to stay in place. That's why a clean (but not lubricated) surface and proper lug nut torque is so important. If you put anything between those surfaces that reduces the coefficient of friction or, worse, compresses (like a gasket), then the total friction force goes way down and the result could be failed studs. Just clean the surfaces and reassemble.

When I took my rotors off to replace them I put anti-seize between the hat and the bearing surface. Those 2 surfaces already have some anti seize on them from the factory. Not as much as I put on though. I suppose I can take it off later but it doesnt seem to have caused any issues after my first trackday with them. I'll remove the wheels this weekend and check on the retaining screw that is holding the hub. If anything is going to shear first it will be that little guy.

Also that TSB you posted is only for the hub/wheel surfaces. Says nothing about the HUB/Bearing surface (which is where the factory anti-seize is at).

[Whitespeed]

Originally Posted by Msquared

Ironically, that grease was probably applied to minimize corrosion at that location while the car was being transported.

Perhaps that was the intent for the non-1LE cars with steel hats that got carried over to the 1LEs. But not really much of a benefit with the 1LE anodized hats.

Originally Posted by Msquared

There is a TSB for this, and it says to clean everything thoroughly including the use of Scotchbrite pads. Then put a film of lube on just the hub pilot, and reassemble. I wouldn't even bother with the lube on the pilot: there is no reason the wheel should ever move on the pilot if the mating surfaces are clean and the lug nuts are properly torqued.

I suspect the intent with applying lube on the hub pilot is to minimize corrosion that could end up seizing the rotor to the hub. Rotors can sometimes be a nightmare to get off because of this! On my daily drivers that see winter duty, I always make sure the pilot has some anti-seize.

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by Christian1LE

When I took my rotors off to replace them I put anti-seize between the hat and the bearing surface. Those 2 surfaces already have some anti seize on them from the factory. Not as much as I put on though. I suppose I can take it off later but it doesnt seem to have caused any issues after my first trackday with them. I'll remove the wheels this weekend and check on the retaining screw that is holding the hub. If anything is going to shear first it will be that little guy.

Also that TSB you posted is only for the hub/wheel surfaces. Says nothing about the HUB/Bearing surface (which is where the factory anti-seize is at).

I don't understand what bearing surface you're referring to.

Originally Posted by Whitespeed

I suspect the intent with applying lube on the hub pilot is to minimize corrosion that could end up seizing the rotor to the hub. Rotors can sometimes be a nightmare to get off because of this! On my daily drivers that see winter duty, I always make sure the pilot has some anti-seize.

Yeah, that's a good point. And I've done the same on my daughter's car, which still has steel wheels, for the same reason.

[Christian1LE]

Originally Posted by Msquared

I don't understand what bearing surface you're referring to.


Yeah, that's a good point. And I've done the same on my daughter's car, which still has steel wheels, for the same reason.

The surface between the brake hat and the car.

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by Christian1LE

The surface between the brake hat and the car.

So the hub face to the back of the rotor hat. Yeah, that has the same need for friction at that mating surface as the wheel to the rotor hat. You should not put any kind of lube or coating there.

[Christian1LE]

Originally Posted by Msquared

So the hub face to the back of the rotor hat. Yeah, that has the same need for friction at that mating surface as the wheel to the rotor hat. You should not put any kind of lube or coating there.

Interesting, I'll keep an eye on it but like I said, It has coating there from the factory.

[Ryanbabz71]

Originally Posted by Whitespeed

Fair point that anodizing won't prevent corrosion indefinitely, particularly if the anodized surface is penetrated, which can initiate corrosion prematurely. However, what's shown in that picture is very minor. It would take a substantial amount to compromise the clamping friction between the hat and hub to the point that the rotor is going to be able to move around enough to generate noise. To reach that level, I suspect the service life of the rotor itself would be well exceeded.



Further, the ticking noise that's common with these cars is there right from the start. It may take a while for an owner to notice it because it can take significant cornering loads that may not be achieved on the street. But regardless, it's apparent when the parts are brand new before any kind of meaningful corrosion could have formed.


The root cause for the majority of cases has been identified as improperly torqued lug nuts from the factory along with a film of grease that they were applying between the rotor face and the wheel hub (which they've hopefully stopped doing). The loose, lubricated interface causes the wheel to shift around under cornering loads and from my observations of shiny spots on the hub pilot, the ticking noise is coming from the wheel striking the pilot as the wheel shifts around. As Msquared mentioned, lubricating the interface is not always a great idea.



Some people have been successful in eliminating the noise by simply fully torquing the wheel nuts. That made a meaningful improvement for me, but didn't eliminate it completely. I had to scrub the wheel and rotor interfaces spotlessly clean with lacquer thinner to get rid of the sound once and for all. That was years ago and it's never returned.

I’ve had my wheels off multiple times and the noise didn’t show up until 3 years after buying the car. The wheels were always torqued and checked frequently. I thought it may be the front sway bar as that was also an issue but it wasn’t.


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[mano_camaro]

I had the same issue in the past when i had them torqued initially to 125ft lbs.



After reading some threads i torqued to 140 ft lbs and the noise hasn't come back.

[Jason Mellon]

I experienced all the above and a few years ago and dealer technicians & factory phone support didn’t help much. I will concede that the torque was insufficient and there was a film of lubricant between the rotor hat & wheel to help deter that corrosion seen. A thorough cleaning & proper torque to 140 ft/lbs rectified it. School of hard knocks!
Thanks to everyone on this forum! Didn’t have clicking anymore.