[Cuda7050]

I'm not even sure what the point here is. Let each individual determine the car they want to buy? To bring it back to the OT, is someone looking to buy an //M4 GTS even bothered some Camaro is anywhere near it in lap times? Probably not. They'll be stroking their chub having an //M4 GTS in their garage and not giving a crap about anyone or anything else. I guess this is why I've always seen car comparisons fairly moot; one camp is never going to convince the other that they're "right".[/QUOTE]


Go look at some of the BMW forum discussions, some posters fit your description but lots of them pissed about the GTS being shown up by the GT 350 and matched by the 1LE. Also lots of BMW owners giving props to GM for their continued impressive performance numbers. It's just as much fun as reading the Mustang6g forum with their fanboys making excuses and denials.

[prostcj]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

So you can more easily remember what I actually said, my original comment:

"I'll have to agree after seeing the CF vs standard wheels in a GT350R comparison. Those lightweight wheels provide a significant braking and accelerating advantage. Not to mention what it does for the handling (lower unsprung weight and rotational mass).

I kind of think Ford knew they couldn't get there with typical engineering (aka GT350) so they had to bring in the CF wheel to get competitive results. I don't want to go so far as to saying it's cheating...however no one else uses them...yet."

I don't see how that is "childish". But it won't bring a tear to my eye to be called such. If the GT350R wore standard forged wheels they would not have bested the 5Gen Z/28 which weighs 100's of pounds more...and that was their #1 goal.

EDIT: The 5Gen Z/28 did better the GT350R.

The point I'm suprised isn't mentioned more is that when Ford decided they needed to go to a CF wheel in order to get the performance, they guaranteed the gt350r would never be a volume car. I bet Ford plans to make as few gt350r's as possible since they probably lose money on each car. This also means the gt350r will always demand a premium over a Z06.

Originally Posted by Egon

There is absolutely no reason why the V6 1LE and the V8 GTPP can't be compared since Ford themselves insist that they compare their Turbo I4 against Chevrolets V6 in this segment. If Ford can rewrite the traditional progression of 4cyl < V6 < V8 than Chevrolet can do the same with the V6 1LE, Ford just set the precedent. The differences between a Turbo I4 and a V6 is vastly larger than the diff between a V6 and a V8 afterall.



I don't think the 100 hp deficit is as big as you make it out to be in a track setting. First off the GT350(non R) has 71 more hp and a similar weight to the SS 1LE and yet the SS 1LE is still faster. The V6 1LE is down 100 hp from the Mustang GTPP but it also weighs 270 lbs less. A weight savings of that amount is worth a LOT since you won't be throwing as much weight around when cornering. It's a significant advantage, and it is one of the reasons I think the V6 1LE may be devastating in SCCA F-Street class next year. That is assuming they leave it in FS and don't move it to a different class like they are likely to do with the SS 1LE into A-Street.

And before you say anything about tires consider that a Mustang Ecoboost came in 3rd this year in SCCA Nationals just behind a 2016 Camaro SS, and a 2015 Camaro 1LE all with Bridgestone RE-71r's. (I think they were even the same sizes on the 16 Camaro and the 2015 Ecoboost) The lower weight of the Ecoboost made it competitive despite being down 145hp to the winning Camaro. (it was 6 tenths behind the winning car over 2 days of competition)

TLDR: If Ford insists we have to compare their Turbo I4 with Chevys V6 model we can compare the V6 1LE to the Mustang GTPP. And 100 hp isn't as big of a handicap as it is made out to be considering significant weight savings in the V6 1LE.

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[SpeedIsLife]

Ford Performance operates under a required sales in the black policy...meaning cars cannot be sold in the red.

Ford absolutely makes money on each "R"...it might just not be much

[prostcj]

Based on the demand then I would expect them to bump up production considerably in the future. Only time will tell.

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[shaffe]

Originally Posted by 90503

FWIW They have the classes made up by price....(a pretty wide spread)....I thought the GT350 with carbon fiber wheels was more than 65K....

It looks like the 350R is the quickest in that "class"....The ZL-1 should be in that class also....

GT350R MSRP = 64,270

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by shaffe

GT350R MSRP = 64,270

Plus the $1300 gas guzzler tax everyone seems to forget...

But taxes and fees aren't included in their class breakdowns...

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

Plus the $1300 gas guzzler tax everyone seems to forget...

But taxes and fees aren't included in their class breakdowns...

False

Base MSRP 62,070

+ 900 Destination

= 62,970

+ 1,300 gas Guzzler Tax

= 64,270

[prostcj]

Originally Posted by shaffe

False

Base MSRP 62,070

+ 900 Destination

= 62,970

+ 1,300 gas Guzzler Tax

= 64,270

False,
All that stuff plus 35,000 dealer markup.

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[shaffe]

Originally Posted by prostcj

False,
All that stuff plus 35,000 dealer markup.

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LOL that is true, but the article went by MSRP, so that is not part of the discussion

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by shaffe

False

Base MSRP 62,070

+ 900 Destination

= 62,970

+ 1,300 gas Guzzler Tax

= 64,270

I stand corrected, but damn Ford is shady...no mention of that unless you read the fine print...

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

I stand corrected, but damn Ford is shady...no mention of that unless you read the fine print...

Yeah, its not listed in the exact break down, but it does say it in the box right next to it

[mcsoul]

No AC, no sound deadening, no radio, no exhaust resonators and no back seats.
And good luck finding any GT350r for less than $20,000 over MSRP.

Who ever buys a 350r, I hope they enjoy it, I'd much rather drive a 1LE.

[AWOL]

I'll take a 1LE with rear seat delete and a rollbar similar to BMW/Porsche uses.

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by mcsoul

No AC, no sound deadening, no radio, no exhaust resonators and no back seats.
And good luck finding any GT350r for less than $20,000 over MSRP.

Who ever buys a 350r, I hope they enjoy it, I'd much rather drive a 1LE.

Even so, I would absolutely take a GT350R over a 1LE if they were the same price.