TCC shudder / tuning solution - Page 5

EMTNLSS · 09-18-2018, 11:02 PM

Is it possible to still get the shudder even with the tuning?

squish72 · 09-22-2018, 09:04 PM

Checking to make sure this is a done deal fix? Thinking about doing it as a preventative measure as I haven't felt any slip yet and don't want it.

KingLT1 · 09-22-2018, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EMTNLSS

Is it possible to still get the shudder even with the tuning?

If you had problems before its a possibility.

EMTNLSS · 09-23-2018, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingLT1

If you had problems before its a possibility.

Hmm I feel like i'm getting it but i've been tuned for a few months now and didn't notice it before I was tuned.

70chevelleSS · 10-01-2018, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EMTNLSS

Hmm I feel like i'm getting it but i've been tuned for a few months now and didn't notice it before I was tuned.

I had issues, had the triple flush and all was good. Got tuned during this period, got all the slip tables zeroed. 5k ish miles later and now it’s shuddering sporadically. Gonna drop the pan this weekend and do a couple rounds of fluid change to see if it may help. If not, I’ll be in the market for a new converter.

DiGiam · 10-02-2018, 08:56 PM

Zeroed my slip tables after the first converter change and it still came back. You will need the new updated converter that has the friction plate riveted on instead of welded. It’s the newest fix

KingLT1 · 10-03-2018, 09:03 AM

Some have had the shudder come back with the updated converter...stock TCC tuning though. So perhaps the true fix is Updated stock or Aftermarket converter + TCC tuning being the transmission is still in good working order? Or are some of you still having issues because the transmission is compromised at this point?

the highlander · 11-09-2018, 09:15 AM

Zeroing out the slip tables is not the true fix. You will introduce an enormous amount of clunkiness when downshifting too. If this were the case we would see this issue on the older 6l80e... which they don't. There is an inherent problem with the torque converter that needs to be addressed. There are some things in the trans calibration that makes this worse but the real problem is a mechanical problem.

KingLT1 · 11-09-2018, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the highlander

Zeroing out the slip tables is not the true fix. You will introduce an enormous amount of clunkiness when downshifting too. If this were the case we would see this issue on the older 6l80e... which they don't. There is an inherent problem with the torque converter that needs to be addressed. There are some things in the trans calibration that makes this worse but the real problem is a mechanical problem.

I don't notice a "enormous amount of clunkiness" on mine when downshifting.

squish72 · 11-09-2018, 10:55 AM

You do get more clunky shifts since there isnt the converter slip smoothing the transition. I reduced it by fully logging and changing every shift point (upshift and downshifts). It's soo much better and now shifts when and where I would want it too. Highly recommend taking the time to do it.

mdhopt36 · 04-26-2019, 07:16 AM

Lots of interesting stuff.
Appreciate all respondents.

One thought.
I notice when cruising and accelerating under very light throttle, the engine speeds up maybe 200 rpm or so at the point of shifting.
Setting the slippage to zero would negate that, right? Make the shift more 'snappy"?

I noted yesterday, cruising downhill to work at around 50mph, and 1100rpm~ the bastard vibrated a good part of the time; maybe 50%~.
(Ain't gonna stand for that.)

metroplex · 03-27-2022, 10:05 AM

I just wanted to add that back around 2001, I had a conversation with a Ford powertrain engineer who explained why the Torque Converter shudder happens and how to prevent it from happening with a tune. Keep in mind this is 2001, so we were discussing transmissions made during that era and the AOD/AODE before that (late 80s to early 90s) so the TCC shudder is not a new problem. But this is 110% applicable to this day.

He explained the TC lockup clutch as a gun with a bunch of bullets. Once those bullets are used up, the shudder starts to happen. The TC clutch gets worn out from the constant steady state slippage that occurs. Using extra friction modifiers like Dr No Shudder or other bottles will be a band-aid fix but the permanent fix is a new TC lockup clutch.

So his tunes back in 2001 would zero out the steady state slip, which is what the OP is talking about here. From 2001, I'd always zero out steady state slip in my own automatic trans tunes.

The reason the OEMs have this slip is really for driveability. The average car consumer does NOT want to hear or feel any driveline clunking. The Torque Converter is a good damper for this.

I used to be able to tweak the tip-in on the 4R70W to prevent the TCC from unlocking so it basically handled like a manual trans - where after decel, tip-in would result in a "clunk" from the TCC staying lockup and the driveline slop working its way to the cabin. I haven't been able to figure this part out on the newer Ford transmissions, and keep in mind GM/Ford has some jointly developed transmissions (6F55/6T7x, 10R80/10L90, 8Fxx/9Txx etc...)

arpad_m · 03-27-2022, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metroplex

I just wanted to add that back around 2001, I had a conversation with a Ford powertrain engineer who explained why the Torque Converter shudder happens and how to prevent it from happening with a tune. Keep in mind this is 2001, so we were discussing transmissions made during that era and the AOD/AODE before that (late 80s to early 90s) so the TCC shudder is not a new problem. But this is 110% applicable to this day.

He explained the TC lockup clutch as a gun with a bunch of bullets. Once those bullets are used up, the shudder starts to happen. The TC clutch gets worn out from the constant steady state slippage that occurs. Using extra friction modifiers like Dr No Shudder or other bottles will be a band-aid fix but the permanent fix is a new TC lockup clutch.

So his tunes back in 2001 would zero out the steady state slip, which is what the OP is talking about here. From 2001, I'd always zero out steady state slip in my own automatic trans tunes.

The reason the OEMs have this slip is really for driveability. The average car consumer does NOT want to hear or feel any driveline clunking. The Torque Converter is a good damper for this.

I used to be able to tweak the tip-in on the 4R70W to prevent the TCC from unlocking so it basically handled like a manual trans - where after decel, tip-in would result in a "clunk" from the TCC staying lockup and the driveline slop working its way to the cabin. I haven't been able to figure this part out on the newer Ford transmissions, and keep in mind GM/Ford has some jointly developed transmissions (6F55/6T7x, 10R80/10L90, 8Fxx/9Txx etc...)

This is very interesting, thank you for sharing, metroplex.

My 8L90 has been tuned since about 2000 miles on the clock, slip tables zeroed, trans preemptively flushed twice, on the correct fluid since about March 2019. Now it possible that I already am desensitized, but I'm simply not experiencing any clunk in those decel, then tip-in situations except when the trans fluid is very cold and I've just finished coasting downhill. Even then it isn't horrendous per se.

NewCamaroOrder · 03-27-2022, 05:33 PM

I have just over 32,000 and the shudder just started. Do we think that this means the TC lockup clutch is worn out because the shudder has started? Or is there a chance the TC lockup clutch is still ok and the triple flush / tune can stop the excessive wear that occurs during shudder?

Has anyone had the shudder then flushed and tuned and had the shudder remain fixed for any significant length of time?

Thanks!

09-18-2018, 11:02 PM	#57
EMTNLSS Drives: 2016 Hyper Blue 2SS Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Layton, UT Posts: 498	Is it possible to still get the shudder even with the tuning? __________________ 2SS Hyper Blue Metallic \| A8 \| Jet Black Interior \| NPP Exhaust Current Mods: Catch Can \| aFe Lowering Springs \| GM 2nd Gen Splitter \| Hotchkis Sway Bars \| MRR FS02 Wheels \| Flowmaster Exhaust \| Dark Tail Lights \| Diode Dynamics Sidemarkers \| Roto Fab \| Solar TB \| PRAY Ported IM \| BMR \| PRAY Tune Upcoming Mods:

10-02-2018, 08:56 PM	#62
DiGiam Drives: 2016 NFG SS A8 Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Valdosta Posts: 405	Zeroed my slip tables after the first converter change and it still came back. You will need the new updated converter that has the friction plate riveted on instead of welded. It’s the newest fix __________________ 2016 NFG 1SS A8. Pray ported intake manifold, Rotofab dry cai, kooks 2" catted longtubes, E85,

10-03-2018, 09:03 AM	#63
KingLT1 Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8 Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: 46804 Posts: 6,797	Some have had the shudder come back with the updated converter...stock TCC tuning though. So perhaps the true fix is Updated stock or Aftermarket converter + TCC tuning being the transmission is still in good working order? Or are some of you still having issues because the transmission is compromised at this point? __________________ 2016 NFG 1SS A8 Options-2SS Leather/NPP Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA

09-22-2018, 09:04 PM	#58
squish72 Drives: 2016 2SS 8AT Join Date: May 2018 Location: Nevada Posts: 358	Checking to make sure this is a done deal fix? Thinking about doing it as a preventative measure as I haven't felt any slip yet and don't want it.

11-09-2018, 09:15 AM	#64
the highlander Drives: C5 Z06 LS7 Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: San Juan PR Posts: 15	Zeroing out the slip tables is not the true fix. You will introduce an enormous amount of clunkiness when downshifting too. If this were the case we would see this issue on the older 6l80e... which they don't. There is an inherent problem with the torque converter that needs to be addressed. There are some things in the trans calibration that makes this worse but the real problem is a mechanical problem.

11-09-2018, 10:55 AM	#66
squish72 Drives: 2016 2SS 8AT Join Date: May 2018 Location: Nevada Posts: 358	You do get more clunky shifts since there isnt the converter slip smoothing the transition. I reduced it by fully logging and changing every shift point (upshift and downshifts). It's soo much better and now shifts when and where I would want it too. Highly recommend taking the time to do it.

04-26-2019, 07:16 AM	#67
mdhopt36 Drives: '17- 1ag37 V6 traded, for 1SS 2018! Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: MA Posts: 469	Lots of interesting stuff. Appreciate all respondents. One thought. I notice when cruising and accelerating under very light throttle, the engine speeds up maybe 200 rpm or so at the point of shifting. Setting the slippage to zero would negate that, right? Make the shift more 'snappy"? I noted yesterday, cruising downhill to work at around 50mph, and 1100rpm~ the bastard vibrated a good part of the time; maybe 50%~. (Ain't gonna stand for that.)

03-27-2022, 10:05 AM	#68
metroplex Drives: 2014 Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Detroit Posts: 4	I just wanted to add that back around 2001, I had a conversation with a Ford powertrain engineer who explained why the Torque Converter shudder happens and how to prevent it from happening with a tune. Keep in mind this is 2001, so we were discussing transmissions made during that era and the AOD/AODE before that (late 80s to early 90s) so the TCC shudder is not a new problem. But this is 110% applicable to this day. He explained the TC lockup clutch as a gun with a bunch of bullets. Once those bullets are used up, the shudder starts to happen. The TC clutch gets worn out from the constant steady state slippage that occurs. Using extra friction modifiers like Dr No Shudder or other bottles will be a band-aid fix but the permanent fix is a new TC lockup clutch. So his tunes back in 2001 would zero out the steady state slip, which is what the OP is talking about here. From 2001, I'd always zero out steady state slip in my own automatic trans tunes. The reason the OEMs have this slip is really for driveability. The average car consumer does NOT want to hear or feel any driveline clunking. The Torque Converter is a good damper for this. I used to be able to tweak the tip-in on the 4R70W to prevent the TCC from unlocking so it basically handled like a manual trans - where after decel, tip-in would result in a "clunk" from the TCC staying lockup and the driveline slop working its way to the cabin. I haven't been able to figure this part out on the newer Ford transmissions, and keep in mind GM/Ford has some jointly developed transmissions (6F55/6T7x, 10R80/10L90, 8Fxx/9Txx etc...)

03-27-2022, 05:33 PM	#70
NewCamaroOrder Drives: 2017 Camaro 2SS Nightfall Gray 1LE Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: SoCal Posts: 86	I have just over 32,000 and the shudder just started. Do we think that this means the TC lockup clutch is worn out because the shudder has started? Or is there a chance the TC lockup clutch is still ok and the triple flush / tune can stop the excessive wear that occurs during shudder? Has anyone had the shudder then flushed and tuned and had the shudder remain fixed for any significant length of time? Thanks!

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