[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Redlinez

One of my techs here who is a Ford guy said they jailed Lund Sr. and the guys at Palm Beach dyno. I have no idea how true this is. Told me Texas Speed, Stainless Works, and many others are no longer offering longtubes.

They did visit Lund but that was it. Lund Jr made a video talking about it.

Basically he said they were looking for diesel stuff mostly, some of the agents seemed shocked to be there, but the letter of the law was very vauge etc etc etc

[CamaroCracka]

Originally Posted by Redlinez

One of my techs here who is a Ford guy said they jailed Lund Sr. and the guys at Palm Beach dyno. I have no idea how true this is. Told me Texas Speed, Stainless Works, and many others are no longer offering longtubes.

TSP is still selling headers with off road pipes.
https://www.texas-speed.com/p-5465-t...ess-steel.aspx

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by shaffe

They did visit Lund but that was it. Lund Jr made a video talking about it.

Basically he said they were looking for diesel stuff mostly, some of the agents seemed shocked to be there, but the letter of the law was very vauge etc etc etc

After the VW fiasco the EPA has an omelet on their face. What we are seeing is the typical .gov knee-jerk reaction to a ding on their “Ithoritie”.

As a person who has & maintains several newer diesels they have gotten ridiculously complicated. Exhaust filters for example: What idiot thought this was a logical step? While I haven’t had an issue with them I know plenty who have had them plug & would not self clean. You are talking about trying to filter an insane volume of gasses & they are crazy expensive to replace.

Next is the piss water (DEF) you have to add. Seriously, it’s urea & water... The nozzles are known to clog & cause other issues.

I’m not saying it doesn’t work, because it does. My old 05 skid steer stinks up my whole shop when I start it while the 2021 has the slightest hint of smell.

Now in terms of the “Letter of the Law” goes, the idiocy goes even farther. Let’s say you modify & tune your Car/truck/ whatever to have even better emissions, you broke the law & are just as liable as someone that went the other way.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by gtfoxy

After the VW fiasco the EPA has an omelet on their face. What we are seeing is the typical .gov knee-jerk reaction to a ding on their “Ithoritie”.



As a person who has & maintains several newer diesels they have gotten ridiculously complicated. Exhaust filters for example: What idiot thought this was a logical step? While I haven’t had an issue with them I know plenty who have had them plug & would not self clean. You are talking about trying to filter an insane volume of gasses & they are crazy expensive to replace.



Next is the piss water (DEF) you have to add. Seriously, it’s urea & water... The nozzles are known to clog & cause other issues.



I’m not saying it doesn’t work, because it does. My old 05 skid steer stinks up my whole shop when I start it while the 2021 has the slightest hint of smell.



Now in terms of the “Letter of the Law” goes, the idiocy goes even farther. Let’s say you modify & tune your Car/truck/ whatever to have even better emissions, you broke the law & are just as liable as someone that went the other way.

To be fair, Europe as a whole is a living proof if you want an example of what diesels can do to air quality.

And having worked in a company where haul trucks have DEF issues all the time, especially in the cold(tank heaters go bad and DEF has a somewhat high freezing point), I know what you are talking about.

The exhaust filter probably is an engineer's best attempt at meeting emission standards, maintaining the performance & fuel economy, and making it user-friendly.

And I know this is gonna upset diesel people but IMO, for personal passenger cars and SUVs, diesel is a dead-end. Hybrid does pretty much everything diesel does but better. Good low-end torque, better fuel economy(especially in city), and the cost is similar(most diesel models are pretty expensive). There is also the marketing challenge from, as you mentioned, Dieselgate. For trucks, there is the towing advantage for diesels... For now. I wouldn't be surprised if hybrid models become more capable in a few years.

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by gtfoxy

As a person who has & maintains several newer diesels they have gotten ridiculously complicated. Exhaust filters for example: What idiot thought this was a logical step? While I haven’t had an issue with them I know plenty who have had them plug & would not self clean. You are talking about trying to filter an insane volume of gasses & they are crazy expensive to replace.

Next is the piss water (DEF) you have to add. Seriously, it’s urea & water... The nozzles are known to clog & cause other issues.

This is why I'm keeping my 05 DMax. Last year before they went to pee injectors and filters.

[Choda]

wait for the latest versions of HP Tuners that dont allow emission changes

[CHASLT1]

Tuning days are dead not far off or any mods. Glad i got rid of my modded C6 in a way as i don't have to worry if i sold it. I may not do any mods on my LT1.

[BlaqWhole]

None of us are victims here. These changes have been in the works for a long time. In fact, I'd wager that us here in the US are actually behind what other countries have already been doing for a while now. It was only a matter of time before the government started cracking down on tuners and shops and manufacturers. They all know good and well that all these people ordering "off-road" pipes for brand new Mustangs and Camaros...they know good and well all these brand new cars are not "off-road" vehicles. Heck, they come rolling into the shop with license plates, registration, and insurance...the shops even road test these vehicle. Now how you gonna tell me that you put "off-road pipes on a registered and insured vehicle, then test drove it on a public road, then the owner drove off in the same car, and it is an "off-road" vehicle? LOL!! We all been lying and getting away with it for years and finally they got fed up with it and are tightening up. Stop it right at the source...the manufacturers. Eventually they'll start fining the hell out of violators. Like, if you get pulled over and they check under your car and find the cats missing and no CEL then you'll be getting a nice fine and your car impounded. I bet you that is where we're headed sooner or later.

For now at least they're allowing HF cats. And you can still get your car tuned as long as they're not tuning to defeat the emission control systems from what I gather. Like, if you remove the cats and they tune it out, then that will be illegal I guess. So no big deal really. So what, you lose about 20-50 HP. Instead of 870 RWHP you're setup might be "only" 830 RWHP. You'll live.

[BlaqWhole]

When you think about it, this might be the push towards more eco-friendly AND faster cars. if they start using turbo V6 tech, AWD, and less weight, then we might end up with cars that are faster and handle better. I mean, the GTR is a V6 turbo and that thing is a 10 sec car. And it has nowhere near the HP output of the ZL1. And it has a hell of a lot of cool tech. GM already has 400 HP turbo V6 engines. We might start to see the SS in V6 turbo configuration with AWD and a smaller and lighter frame that will run circles around the current SS. And the ZL1 might be an even higher output V6 turbo. Or maybe they'll keep the top tier Camaro and Corvette as V8s but with a much higher price tag. Who knows. But I do not think this spells doom for the performance industry. Things will just be much different and we'll have to adjust.

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

When you think about it, this might be the push towards more eco-friendly AND faster cars. if they start using turbo V6 tech, AWD, and less weight, then we might end up with cars that are faster and handle better. I mean, the GTR is a V6 turbo and that thing is a 10 sec car. And it has nowhere near the HP output of the ZL1. And it has a hell of a lot of cool tech. GM already has 400 HP turbo V6 engines. We might start to see the SS in V6 turbo configuration with AWD and a smaller and lighter frame that will run circles around the current SS. And the ZL1 might be an even higher output V6 turbo. Or maybe they'll keep the top tier Camaro and Corvette as V8s but with a much higher price tag. Who knows. But I do not think this spells doom for the performance industry. Things will just be much different and we'll have to adjust.

Recently my kid and I got passed by a beautiful new Supra (not racing) and I told my kid I could totally beat him if we raced. When I get home I research the the car and come to find out it does 0-60 in 3.9, yikes!

[vtirocz]

Originally Posted by Aragorn

Recently my kid and I got passed by a beautiful new Supra (not racing) and I told my kid I could totally beat him if we raced. When I get home I research the the car and come to find out it does 0-60 in 3.9, yikes!

Yeah, the Supra puts down remarkably similar acceleration #s to the SS: https://www.motortrend.com/cars/toyo...t-test-review/

1/4 mile in the 12.3-12.5s range depending on which year it is. Faster than I expected.

[UnknownJinX]

Regarding NA V8 vs. turbo V6 efficiency, while the latter does better on standardized tests, nobody who owns a performance car drives like a grandma, and we all know what happens to the fuel economy of any turbocharged car when you peg them.

[CamaroSSStlfan]

Originally Posted by Aragorn

Recently my kid and I got passed by a beautiful new Supra (not racing) and I told my kid I could totally beat him if we raced. When I get home I research the the car and come to find out it does 0-60 in 3.9, yikes!

Would be a drivers race. to achieve numbers in cars like Supra would take a great driver.


I would think with all the low end torque the SS has and you would still beat a Supra drive if you launch perfectly.


That's like the current Coyote is supposed to be nearly identical performance wise to the 6th gen but the 6th gen usually wins the race still.


I would still take the thrill of low end torque of a SS, Scatpack, Mustang over a Supra.


A bone stock SS has so many possibilities for mods.


If I was put in a life and death situation that I must win this race and told to pick a car; SS (A10) Mustang GT and something like a Supra I would go with A10 SS.

[BlaqWhole]

I can't speak for the SS but I know the Supra is no match for the ZL1. I came across a few of them all modded and tuned...you could smell the race gas. My ZL1 was catback, intake, ported TB. At no point did any of them give me trouble. I do not think they are fast, I'm pretty sure a SS will beat them in a roll race.