[Briland_1LE]

Went to Sebring TrackNight in America last week. It was hot as hell my car temperature was reading 100F. I was pushing the car hard on straights and after about ten minutes i would start to feel the brake fade. They got progressively spongey so I took a few cool down laps and went back at it. I was a bit disappointed though because I was expecting to not have that be an issue at all. I have new DOT4 fluid flushed by the dealer.

I think part of it was how I was braking because on my first two sessions I got on the brakes early in each turn but was not pushing the pedal very hard as a way to do a more gradual stop but I realized that extra time spent with the rotors and pads in contact must be adding extra heat. So my third session I changed to coasting for a second and then braking late and very hard. This gave me better results and I actually was able to run longer with no/less fade.

So in short braking late while scarier will cause less fade at the track.

[Christian1LE]

Not all DOT fluids are the same. What exact DOT4 fluid did they use? Sounds like bad fluid to me. You shouldnt have to resort to any alternative braking methods on the track. You should be able to brake late and brake hard. Max initial pressure at the beginning and slowly letting off as you turn into the corner.

Spongy brakes means air in your brake lines. Either the DOT4 fluid they used cannot take the amount of heat you were putting into the brakes(likely) causing them to boil and form air in the lines or they didn't bleed your brakes correctly(less likely). You should flush everything again with a high temp DOT4 brake fluid(most people will probably recommend Castrol SRF) before going out to the track again.

[kropscamaro16]

yup 100% what fluid are you using and is your brake setup 100% stock? most guys only need fluid change and alignment for first track day and they are good to go

[Briland_1LE]

Originally Posted by Christian1LE

Not all DOT fluids are the same. What exact DOT4 fluid did they use? Sounds like bad fluid to me. You shouldnt have to resort to any alternative braking methods on the track. You should be able to brake late and brake hard. Max initial pressure at the beginning and slowly letting off as you turn into the corner.

Spongy brakes means air in your brake lines. Either the DOT4 fluid they used cannot take the amount of heat you were putting into the brakes(likely) causing them to boil and form air in the lines or they didn't bleed your brakes correctly(less likely). You should flush everything again with a high temp DOT4 brake fluid(most people will probably recommend Castrol SRF) before going out to the track again.

They used the OEM DOT4 fluid that comes in the 1LE. Not sure exact fluid though. I think the problem was my bad braking technique in my first two sessions which I described in the second paragraph. I switched to the technique of brake late and hard then feather off into the turn and I stopped noticing any fade on my third session. I thought i was taking it easy in the first two sessions by braking early and not hard but i realiyI was cooking the brakes more that way.

[kropscamaro16]

Originally Posted by Briland_1LE

They used the OEM DOT4 fluid that comes in the 1LE. Not sure exact fluid though. I think the problem was my bad braking technique in my first two sessions which I described in the second paragraph. I switched to the technique of brake late and hard then feather off into the turn and I stopped noticing any fade on my third session. I thought i was taking it easy in the first two sessions by braking early and not hard but i realiyI was cooking the brakes more that way.

cant be oem fluid has to be upgraded fluid such as motul660 or castrol srf if they used the oem fluid 100% that is your issue and maybe the braking helped

[Christian1LE]

Originally Posted by Briland_1LE

They used the OEM DOT4 fluid that comes in the 1LE. Not sure exact fluid though. I think the problem was my bad braking technique in my first two sessions which I described in the second paragraph. I switched to the technique of brake late and hard then feather off into the turn and I stopped noticing any fade on my third session. I thought i was taking it easy in the first two sessions by braking early and not hard but i realiyI was cooking the brakes more that way.

It was not your braking technique, you need racing DOT4 fluid. Buy Castrol SRF before your next trackday.

[Briland_1LE]

Originally Posted by kropscamaro16

cant be oem fluid has to be upgraded fluid such as motul660 or castrol srf if they used the oem fluid 100% that is your issue and maybe the braking helped

Okay sweet I'll get the Motul 660 I used that in my past cars for track and liked it. And with a fluid of this performance is there typically no fade at all? Because every other aspect of the car performs at such a high level if I didn't have to worry about babying the brakes I would have been giving the trailered track prepped cars a run for their money haha.

[Coded4SS]

Originally Posted by Briland_1LE

They used the OEM DOT4 fluid that comes in the 1LE. Not sure exact fluid though. I think the problem was my bad braking technique in my first two sessions which I described in the second paragraph. I switched to the technique of brake late and hard then feather off into the turn and I stopped noticing any fade on my third session. I thought i was taking it easy in the first two sessions by braking early and not hard but i realiyI was cooking the brakes more that way.

OEM fluid is DOT3. GM does make dot 4 though but you suually gotta ask or sometimes they just do that. If you got fade it was DOT3 or you had 4 in there way too long. I ran GM DOT4 on the tracks and canyons and never had an issue. DOT3 you will. Like Koldus said use Motul or just get Castrol SRF it's a better fluid IMO. Also stay the hell away from the dealer for brake fluid changes. Those guys don't even bleed the inside bleeder just the outside ask me how I know. If they gave you GM DOT4 and you had fade I guarantee they didint do the change properly and that's the actual problem. You need to do it yourself or get a performance shop that knows what they are doing. Don't go to the dealer.

[Christian1LE]

Originally Posted by Briland_1LE

Okay sweet I'll get the Motul 660 I used that in my past cars for track and liked it. And with a fluid of this performance is there typically no fade at all? Because every other aspect of the car performs at such a high level if I didn't have to worry about babying the brakes I would have been giving the trailered track prepped cars a run for their money haha.

I've ran my car as hard as I could at VIR North course(hard on brakes) for 1 hour (entire gas tank). And had 0 issues, I was using Castrol SRF w/ XP12 Carbotech pads.

[eimarshall]

While not all DOT4 is created equal, I agree with OP on the braking technique idea. Braking from 100 to 50 regardless of braking rate will incur the same amount of heat into the system. but doing so later and harder, gives the system more time to cool off.
MotoIQ modeled and tested this years ago.
https://motoiq.com/modeling-braking-...ss-brake-fade/

They showed that even though braking harder and later led to higher speeds, braking more lightly caused the rotors to run at nearly the same temp, despite the speeds being lower. They also showed that running a similar lap time but braking harder showed significantly lower brake temps.

[Christian1LE]

Originally Posted by eimarshall

While not all DOT4 is created equal, I agree with OP on the braking technique idea. Braking from 100 to 50 regardless of braking rate will incur the same amount of heat into the system. but doing so later and harder, gives the system more time to cool off.
MotoIQ modeled and tested this years ago.
https://motoiq.com/modeling-braking-...ss-brake-fade/

They showed that even though braking harder and later led to higher speeds, braking more lightly caused the rotors to run at nearly the same temp, despite the speeds being lower. They also showed that running a similar lap time but braking harder showed significantly lower brake temps.

Makes sense, although I wouldn't say that article is very scientifically tested, more of an anecdote. I would just make sure that the OP should be aware that he should be using race brake fluid instead of whatever the dealer threw in there. IMO even with poor braking technique I don't believe he should be getting brake fade(from fluid boiling) to the degree that he described.

Also in that test he says that the "lazy" braking method keeps the rotor temps elevated for longer, but they are still lower than the peak temps hitting by braking hard. In both scenarios the temperature shouldnt exceed the boiling point of the DOT4 fluid, so I'm not sure how that test explains the spongy pedal feel.

[cdb95z28]

Braking technique can most certainly create problems. Long, drawn out braking allows the heat to soak further into the components before any cooling takes place.

The brand of DOT4 also plays a part. Having Castrol SRF, Brembo HTC64T or Endless 650 will raise the boiling point higher than most other DOT4s on the market. And do not forget about proper cooling too.

Use these instead of the deflectors that came on the 1LE

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=584255

[cdrptrks]

If you haven't already, you might want to order and install the kit with SS plastic lower control arm deflectors and smaller metal splash shields but I imagine that the stock DOT4 brake fluid was the weakest link in your case. There are also newer plastic deflectors made for the Cadillac Blackwing that can be used instead.

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...0#post11175750

I tracked my SS 1LE at Sebring for the first time last month with SRF brake fluid and didn't experience any braking issues running 25 minute sessions with those deflectors and splash shields mentioned above on stock brake pads but the high temperature was around 90 rather than 100. I also did some partial cooldown laps whenever I would catch another car in a bad spot but that was more for controlling tire temperature. I did get a significant amount of rear brake pad taper on that set with the top of each pad wearing several mm more than the bottom which was likely from Sebring but it possibly could have been from another track.

[MatthewAMEL]

Originally Posted by Briland_1LE

Went to Sebring TrackNight in America last week. It was hot as hell my car temperature was reading 100F. I was pushing the car hard on straights and after about ten minutes i would start to feel the brake fade. They got progressively spongey so I took a few cool down laps and went back at it. I was a bit disappointed though because I was expecting to not have that be an issue at all. I have new DOT4 fluid flushed by the dealer.

I think part of it was how I was braking because on my first two sessions I got on the brakes early in each turn but was not pushing the pedal very hard as a way to do a more gradual stop but I realized that extra time spent with the rotors and pads in contact must be adding extra heat. So my third session I changed to coasting for a second and then braking late and very hard. This gave me better results and I actually was able to run longer with no/less fade.

So in short braking late while scarier will cause less fade at the track.

I was at that event as well running in Advanced and you are correct...it was HOT.


OEM pads are great and I ran them for years with good results at Sebring and Daytona, but you need good fluid. Motul600 at a minimum and ideally SRF. Just don't forget that in the high humidity environment of Florida, you will need to bleed/flush more frequently.



Two other 1LE's were running with me in advanced. Both were on OEM brake pads with SRF and they had brakes all day.