[JANNETTYRACING]

I have been getting a lot of questions regarding adding a flex fuel sensor for use with E-85.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation regarding this so I am starting this thread to hopefully educate and put to rest some of the misinformation.

Somehow people are getting the impression you can purchase and install a sensor and you're good to go, NOT the case at all.

Q. Can I add a flex fuel sensor to my car?

A. Yes, you can but it will do nothing without custom tuning to activate it.

Q. OK after the flex fuel sensor can I burn E-85?

A. Yes and no, If all Stock Yes, if modified NO, you do not have large enough injectors or fuel pump to supply the 30% more fuel volume needed.

Q. What is required to burn E-85 in my supercharged Camaro?

A. That will depend on RWHP target, Example, for up to 500 RWHP you could get away with stock fuel system, flex fuel sensor and custom tuning.

A2. For modified vehicles, i.e Heads cam or Supercharger, an LT-4 High pressure fuel pump, LT4 injectors, ZL-1 in tank pump, a Flex fuel sensor, and custom tuning.

Q. How much more power an I expect from E-85?

A. This is a loaded question, again it will depend on how extensive your mods are now and how badly you need more octane.

A2. Example 1, 770 RWHP 93 oct combo makes 850 RWHP on E-74, total 80 RWHP gain

A3. Example 2, 630 RWHP 93 oct combo makes 685 RWHP on E-68, total 55 RWHP gain

Q. What is E-85, E74, E68?

A. It is the percentage of Ethanol vs Gasoline in the mixture, when you buy E-85 you don't always get E-85 you often get E-74.

Q. How do you know this?

A. The Flex fuel sensor reports this to the computer and can be logged or read through the OBDii port.

Q. With a complete flex fuel conversion can I switch between 93 and E-85

A. Yes you can when setup correctly the computer will compensate for the Stoich value and timing requirements.

Q. What needs to be done to the tune to enable Flex fuel capability?

A. A full custom tune must be made on the dyno first on 93 then enable the flex fuel sensor, the flex fuel timing and fueling tables must be set up as they are currently all Zeros.

I will be happy to add to this thread with anyone's additional questions, these are the most common I have been getting.

Ted.

[jdasnt3]

Very nice! Can you expand on what you mean by "modified?" I believe that a full bolt on car or even cammed/heads car is OK with the E85 flex fuel and tune. If I am incorrect, I need to get my car returned to stock ASAP, but I haven't had any issues or KR so far.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by jdasnt3

Very nice! Can you expand on what you mean by "modified?" I believe that a full bolt on car or even cammed/heads car is OK with the E85 flex fuel and tune. If I am incorrect, I need to get my car returned to stock ASAP, but I haven't had any issues or KR so far.

Modified anything beyond CAI and Headers.

Cam and Heads on E-85 would exceed the fuel system flow capability.

OF COURSE, a lesser quantity of Ethanol would give you more headroom.

The Stock fuel system is good to about 560-580 RWHP on 10% ethanol fuel, depending on how lean you are willing to run it.

[jdasnt3]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Modified anything beyond CAI and Headers.

Cam and Heads on E-85 would exceed the fuel system flow capability.

OF COURSE, a lesser quantity of Ethanol would give you more headroom.

The Stock fuel system is good to about 560-580 RWHP on 10% ethanol fuel, depending on how lean you are willing to run it.

Thank you. Your definition of modified and mine were different. I appreciate the clarification.

[Red1Le]

Great write up once again!

[bybcous]

I believe im around 530 hp, how do i know when injectors and pump are needed for sure? Would my tuner have been able to tell before he gave car back to me? I have a hp tuners ngauge installed in car and can monitor all pids, which pid should i monitor to see if car is really able to handle the e85 i run. Fuel pressure?

Thanks for help, been wondrring since i installed it

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by bybcous

I believe im around 530 hp, how do i know when injectors and pump are needed for sure? Would my tuner have been able to tell before he gave car back to me? I have a hp tuners ngauge installed in car and can monitor all pids, which pid should i monitor to see if car is really able to handle the e85 i run. Fuel pressure?

Thanks for help, been wondering since i installed it

Monitor High pressure, commanded and actual, low fuel pressure commanded and actual, and injector pulse width.

Again it depends on how lean you run it and how much ethanol content you run.

The higher the content the more liquid fuel volume you need.

Ted.

[drivingagain]

Based on this logic If I was going to add heads and cam plus full bolts ons I should keep running 93 octane then focus on e85? E85 is not readily available around me anyways.

[hamilton2008]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

I have been getting a lot of questions regarding adding a flex fuel sensor for use with E-85.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation regarding this so I am starting this thread to hopefully educate and put to rest some of the misinformation.

Somehow people are getting the impression you can purchase and install a sensor and you're good to go, NOT the case at all.

Q. Can I add a flex fuel sensor to my car?

A. Yes, you can but it will do nothing without custom tuning to activate it.

Q. OK after the flex fuel sensor can I burn E-85?

A. Yes and no, If all Stock Yes, if modified NO, you do not have large enough injectors or fuel pump to supply the 30% more fuel volume needed.

Q. What is required to burn E-85 in my supercharged Camaro?

A. That will depend on RWHP target, Example, for up to 500 RWHP you could get away with stock fuel system, flex fuel sensor and custom tuning.

A2. For modified vehicles, i.e Heads cam or Supercharger, an LT-4 High pressure fuel pump, LT4 injectors, ZL-1 in tank pump, a Flex fuel sensor, and custom tuning.

Q. How much more power an I expect from E-85?

A. This is a loaded question, again it will depend on how extensive your mods are now and how badly you need more octane.

A2. Example 1, 770 RWHP 93 oct combo makes 850 RWHP on E-74, total 80 RWHP gain

A3. Example 2, 630 RWHP 93 oct combo makes 685 RWHP on E-68, total 55 RWHP gain

Q. What is E-85, E74, E68?

A. It is the percentage of Ethanol vs Gasoline in the mixture, when you buy E-85 you don't always get E-85 you often get E-74.

Q. How do you know this?

A. The Flex fuel sensor reports this to the computer and can be logged or read through the OBDii port.

Q. With a complete flex fuel conversion can I switch between 93 and E-85

A. Yes you can when setup correctly the computer will compensate for the Stoich value and timing requirements.

Q. What needs to be done to the tune to enable Flex fuel capability?

A. A full custom tune must be made on the dyno first on 93 then enable the flex fuel sensor, the flex fuel timing and fueling tables must be set up as they are currently all Zeros.

I will be happy to add to this thread with anyone's additional questions, these are the most common I have been getting.

Ted.

ihave cam heads headers converter intake and full exhaust making north of 550 to the tire and i run e85.... stock injectors and srock high pressure and low pressure pump

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by drivingagain

Based on this logic If I was going to add heads and cam plus full bolts ons I should keep running 93 octane then focus on e85? E85 is not readily available around me anyways.

If E-85 is not locally available it does not make much sense, but that is a personal decision.

You can make great power on 93 octane fuel NA or boosted

Originally Posted by hamilton2008

ihave cam heads headers converter intake and full exhaust making north of 550 to the tire and i run e85.... stock injectors and stock high pressure and low pressure pump

Congrats you're definitely getting it done.

I imagine you are logging high pressure, low pressure, and injector pulse width.

This Thread is meant to be a guide, your results may vary some and as we all know dynos vary.

I also noted it depends on how lean you are willing to run your car and what percentage of ethanol.

Ted.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by hamilton2008

ihave cam heads headers converter intake and full exhaust making north of 550 to the tire and i run e85.... stock injectors and srock high pressure and low pressure pump

Does your cam have the increased fuel lobe?

[Daniel20162ss]

As ultra said, with the 32 additional fuel lobe, would it be a safe possibility to have full bolt ons, cam/heads and running e85 without fuel issues on otherwise stock fuel system

[TRich2SS]

"Q. What needs to be done to the tune to enable Flex fuel capability?

A. A full custom tune must be made on the dyno first on 93 then enable the flex fuel sensor, the flex fuel timing and fueling tables must be set up as they are currently all Zeros."

Which kit are you guys selling? I have the EFI kit and its my understanding I didn't need a dyno tune on 93 before being able to properly use E85. I received a base tune from Tim via HPT and will log and refine from there. Am I misunderstanding?

[EFI Tuning]

I'm only replying to Ted's thread to address TRich2SS's question

The tune I provide has a 93 octane calibration in it. "Refine" is the proper way to put it in my opinion. If you never touch a dyno you have nothing to stress about. Your car will run very well. If you want to get every last bit out of your specific engine under your environmental conditions then dyno and/or track tweaking is the next stop. There is really no other way around it if you want to extract everything you can.

Without getting too deep on how it all works there is some dependency on the 93 octane tune. I created a Matlab script to take all of the various tables used for spark and generate the "final" spark table. You can't just look at the base high octane table and know what your final timing advance number will be for a given RPM and airmass.

Anyways...sorry Ted