[kwav8r]

Originally Posted by 90503

I'd give the "win" to the GT350 for name recognition as a nod to some past legacy....but that's about it.

No doubt they have a marketing edge for the GTs, Shelby's, etc. over any of the Camaro nameplates as far as rarity at least. The Z/28 nameplate was a bust as far as commanding ADM, and hopefully the ZL1 1LE will have even less ADM appeal...

ADM is a waste of money and a rip-off. If the GT350 is marketed as a collectable starting out as new, odds are it never will be, especially if it doesn't have any class leading performance to go with it.
.

Man, talk about hitting the nail on the head. Well done.

[kwav8r]

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by 90503

I'd give the "win" to the GT350 for name recognition as a nod to some past legacy....but that's about it.

No doubt they have a marketing edge for the GTs, Shelby's, etc. over any of the Camaro nameplates as far as rarity at least. The Z/28 nameplate was a bust as far as commanding ADM, and hopefully the ZL1 1LE will have even less ADM appeal...

ADM is a waste of money and a rip-off. If the GT350 is marketed as a collectable starting out as new, odds are it never will be, especially if it doesn't have any class leading performance to go with it.


.

Even though MF (Mustang Fanboy, I am tired of typing his full handle), has been a pain, he has repeated some things way too much, but I would say about 1/4 has validity. The rest MF said was trolling, and I might add, quite effectively.

I commend Ford for making an engine no other American car manufacturer has ever attempted, probably too scared because of reliability and didn't want to have to fix the engines(of course they have replaced a lot already) and then lose face to the public for creating another Edsel.

But my opinion no matter what MF says or anyone on here, the FPC is a special engine to be sure. But it stops there. The rest is a Mustang with wider tires and better suspension. A suspension finally coming when the rest of the world had long ago.

The GT350(R) is worth the MSRP, but that is all.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Only a fan boy would say that, and speak for yourself. Most of us do not disagree.

I said "MOST of us"...and that is MY opinion based off of what i read so far on this thread. If you do not agree then I wasn't speaking for you. As far as calling me a "fanboy", you know what, yea I can honestly say I DO prefer Chevy over Ford. After years and years of dealing with Mustangs and all the BS involved with them and the people who own them...along with all the crap that Ford pulls, I honestly do like Camaros better. Shocking? Guess what, Ford makes a product that you can get for cheap, if that is what you want. But it is cheap. Sure you can get a base model GT for low $30Ks...some claim to have gotten them for high $20Ks. But the Mustang GT is nothing compared to the SS these days. They are a far cry off. And Ford pulls this stupid crap...like it is June of 2017 and still nobody knows what numbers the 18 GT will have. Nobody knows if the GT500 is coming out or not, and the only way to keep up with their number one competitor is to void your warranty. I could see if it was a close match, but they are worlds apart as far as performance. Even the GT350R compared to the ZL1. GT350R is more expensive but they are worlds apart in performance, bang for the buck, and options. The ONLY thing that people claim about the GT350R is that it is more "fun" to drive, it is "special", and it "sounds" good. That isn't enough for a car that costs in the high $60K range. So yea, I have no problem saying that as of right now I am more of a GM "fanboy" than Ford. WHen Ford gets their shit together and can at least offer a comparable all around package for the same price like they did from 2011-2014, then I'll have some respect for them. Until then I think Ford sucks and I wouldn't even consider buying ANY Mustang.

[Artos]

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

The GT350(R) is worth the MSRP, but that is all.

Exactly...I feel the way about the Raptor. I'm not sure whether to be more irked at all the dealers or the buyers who keep the adm alive. Although they may have done me a favor buy putting me in a ZL1, I sure would've liked to seen Dad pick up a Raptor. I hunt a 7000 acre ranch down here that goes back to it's original Spanish land grant layout. Everything originally touched the Rio Grand River & went north. The further inland you got, the skinnier the grant.

Our lease is 9 miles long & 2 miles wide...the Raptor would be a fun truck on the perimeters, but not for $10k over. Crazy they keep selling.

[Boilermaker128]

I'd put 90% blame on the buyers. Those markups are out of touch with what reality is. People with too much easily earned money are the biggest part of the problem. Dealers I can't blame as much, it is hard to stop taking money from a dude willing to keep paying like it was a televised storage wars auction.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I said "MOST of us"...and that is MY opinion based off of what i read so far on this thread. If you do not agree then I wasn't speaking for you. As far as calling me a "fanboy", you know what, yea I can honestly say I DO prefer Chevy over Ford. After years and years of dealing with Mustangs and all the BS involved with them and the people who own them...along with all the crap that Ford pulls, I honestly do like Camaros better. Shocking? Guess what, Ford makes a product that you can get for cheap, if that is what you want. But it is cheap. Sure you can get a base model GT for low $30Ks...some claim to have gotten them for high $20Ks. But the Mustang GT is nothing compared to the SS these days. They are a far cry off. And Ford pulls this stupid crap...like it is June of 2017 and still nobody knows what numbers the 18 GT will have. Nobody knows if the GT500 is coming out or not, and the only way to keep up with their number one competitor is to void your warranty. I could see if it was a close match, but they are worlds apart as far as performance. Even the GT350R compared to the ZL1. GT350R is more expensive but they are worlds apart in performance, bang for the buck, and options. The ONLY thing that people claim about the GT350R is that it is more "fun" to drive, it is "special", and it "sounds" good. That isn't enough for a car that costs in the high $60K range. So yea, I have no problem saying that as of right now I am more of a GM "fanboy" than Ford. WHen Ford gets their shit together and can at least offer a comparable all around package for the same price like they did from 2011-2014, then I'll have some respect for them. Until then I think Ford sucks and I wouldn't even consider buying ANY Mustang.

I think it is funny when Mustang people on here or Mustang6g, say the the ZL1 has so much more horsepower and should have killed the GT350R. Ok, so it has 124 HP more, a fact. And 221 more tq, a fact. But anyone that knows anything about cars, that increased speed in not proportional to increased HP. If a car has 500 hp and does the 1/4 mile in 11 seconds and the other car has 750 HP, that doesn't mean the 750 HP car is going to do the 1/4 mile in 8.25 seconds. Get real. Less weight = more speed with no more HP.

I know not everyone has heard of the 80/20 rule. But it does apply here. Every tenth of a second in the 1/4 mile takes incrementally more HP or less weight to get there.

[unavailablezl1]

This could be the future ZL1 motor to take on the GT500 whenever it comes out of the closet.

Bad Ass and Special

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ws&date=060917

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I said "MOST of us"...and that is MY opinion based off of what i read so far on this thread. If you do not agree then I wasn't speaking for you. As far as calling me a "fanboy", you know what, yea I can honestly say I DO prefer Chevy over Ford. After years and years of dealing with Mustangs and all the BS involved with them and the people who own them...along with all the crap that Ford pulls, I honestly do like Camaros better. Shocking? Guess what, Ford makes a product that you can get for cheap, if that is what you want. But it is cheap. Sure you can get a base model GT for low $30Ks...some claim to have gotten them for high $20Ks. But the Mustang GT is nothing compared to the SS these days. They are a far cry off. And Ford pulls this stupid crap...like it is June of 2017 and still nobody knows what numbers the 18 GT will have. Nobody knows if the GT500 is coming out or not, and the only way to keep up with their number one competitor is to void your warranty. I could see if it was a close match, but they are worlds apart as far as performance. Even the GT350R compared to the ZL1. GT350R is more expensive but they are worlds apart in performance, bang for the buck, and options. The ONLY thing that people claim about the GT350R is that it is more "fun" to drive, it is "special", and it "sounds" good. That isn't enough for a car that costs in the high $60K range. So yea, I have no problem saying that as of right now I am more of a GM "fanboy" than Ford. WHen Ford gets their shit together and can at least offer a comparable all around package for the same price like they did from 2011-2014, then I'll have some respect for them. Until then I think Ford sucks and I wouldn't even consider buying ANY Mustang.

I don't want to keep arguing the same points, but to me it seems like you are caught up in the now.

The 350R was built to beat the Z/28. It was an N/A focused track car built to compete with the cross town rivals N/A track car. They did and they did it cheaper than the Z/28. That was the cars mission.

Now that GM has the upper hand IMO doesn't take anything away from the 350R. It does not make it over priced, it does not make it less special. What does do is show how damn good the ZL1 is.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I said "MOST of us"...and that is MY opinion based off of what i read so far on this thread. If you do not agree then I wasn't speaking for you. As far as calling me a "fanboy", you know what, yea I can honestly say I DO prefer Chevy over Ford. After years and years of dealing with Mustangs and all the BS involved with them and the people who own them...along with all the crap that Ford pulls, I honestly do like Camaros better. Shocking? Guess what, Ford makes a product that you can get for cheap, if that is what you want. But it is cheap. Sure you can get a base model GT for low $30Ks...some claim to have gotten them for high $20Ks. But the Mustang GT is nothing compared to the SS these days. They are a far cry off. And Ford pulls this stupid crap...like it is June of 2017 and still nobody knows what numbers the 18 GT will have. Nobody knows if the GT500 is coming out or not, and the only way to keep up with their number one competitor is to void your warranty. I could see if it was a close match, but they are worlds apart as far as performance. Even the GT350R compared to the ZL1. GT350R is more expensive but they are worlds apart in performance, bang for the buck, and options. The ONLY thing that people claim about the GT350R is that it is more "fun" to drive, it is "special", and it "sounds" good. That isn't enough for a car that costs in the high $60K range. So yea, I have no problem saying that as of right now I am more of a GM "fanboy" than Ford. WHen Ford gets their shit together and can at least offer a comparable all around package for the same price like they did from 2011-2014, then I'll have some respect for them. Until then I think Ford sucks and I wouldn't even consider buying ANY Mustang.

For the record I do not think you are a fan boy, your comment was just something I would see from one. You have expressed very solid reasons(which I agree with) for preferring GM, and fan boys have no reason outside blind loyalty.

I honestly agree with 95% of what you said above. Your reasoning behind special not being enough is spot on! It is special, but who really gives AF? To me, that special crap is just a line of BS GT350 owners feed themselves to sleep at night after parking their overpriced Mustang in their garage. They need to knock at least $10K off the MSRP for any of that to become relevant IMHO. The issues with that platform and the Mustang quality overall far exceed the benefit of being special at that price point, which I think is your point too.

Where I struggle is with knocking the GT350 on the fact that it is slower than the ZL1. I know it is Ford's fault that they are being compared, but I don't think they should be.

[Dethsupp0rt]

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

This could be the future ZL1 motor to take on the GT500 whenever it comes out of the closet.

Bad Ass and Special

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ws&date=060917

Guess I do have something to look forward to getting in 2-3 years after all.

As far as the rest of the thread is concerned, who cares what MT or anyone else says/thinks? They're both great cars. Get the one you want.

[ZL1 1LE]

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

I think it is funny when Mustang people on here or Mustang6g, say the the ZL1 has so much more horsepower and should have killed the GT350R. Ok, so it has 124 HP more, a fact. And 221 more tq, a fact. But anyone that knows anything about cars, that increased speed in not proportional to increased HP. If a car has 500 hp and does the 1/4 mile in 11 seconds and the other car has 750 HP, that doesn't mean the 750 HP car is going to do the 1/4 mile in 8.25 seconds. Get real. Less weight = more speed with no more HP.

I know not everyone has heard of the 80/20 rule. But it does apply here. Every tenth of a second in the 1/4 mile takes incrementally more HP or less weight to get there.

It's always about what it does have. What about what it doesn't have? OHC, FPC, carbon fiber wheels? You'd think based on that the ZL1 would have been left in the dust but, it isn't so.

[catdog]

Originally Posted by Dethsupp0rt

Guess I do have something to look forward to getting in 2-3 years after all.

As far as the rest of the thread is concerned, who cares what MT or anyone else says/thinks? They're both great cars. Get the one you want.

Ah.... finally i can see the path to future upgrades...
Life has meaning once again ...

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I don't want to keep arguing the same points, but to me it seems like you are caught up in the now.

The 350R was built to beat the Z/28. It was an N/A focused track car built to compete with the cross town rivals N/A track car. They did and they did it cheaper than the Z/28. That was the cars mission.

Now that GM has the upper hand IMO doesn't take anything away from the 350R. It does not make it over priced, it does not make it less special. What does do is show how damn good the ZL1 is.

Both the Mustang and Camaro are in their 6th generation so the S550 isn't judged based on the old 5th gen Zeta. Chevy aimed higher and has performance in Alpha that dominates at every trim level.

The GT350 is a extreme design for what it actually delivered. The "most powerful naturally aspirated production Ford engine ever" with the "most track-credible brake system ever offered on a Ford" with "unique bodywork" "from the windshield forward" to "optimized the aero shape", "fine-tuned" "to increase downforce and cooling airflow"...

The SS-1LE "option box" is on par with the GT350TP. The GT350R's performance isn't stellar for the extreme design effort, or for its total msrp of $64,545 plus ADM