Homepage Garage Wiki Register Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
#Camaro6
Go Back   CAMARO6 > Technical Camaro Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis


Bigwormgraphix


Post Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-01-2019, 11:53 AM   #113
NickyRacerBoy

 
Drives: 1LE
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: East Coast
Posts: 1,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by travislambert View Post
Thanks. I wish the results were more favorable. Given these results and the Ask Al suspension test results, I think it's fair to say the advantage the DSSVs has/had over the MRC is disappearing. GM wrote off the terrible lap times in their test by saying the DSSVs are not tuned for the weight of the SS, but I don't think that accounts for the entire difference. That excuse certainly doesn't apply to my test.

It'd be interesting to see GM engineer a ZL1 1LE magnetic ride suspension setup where ride quality isn't a factor. I'd bet it'd be faster than the DSSVs and probably still ride better.

Last year at PittRace I ran with:

SWP Performance
Chin Track Days
3 Balls Racing
AutoInterests
SCCA TNiA
(and a few others I can't remember)

I'll pretty much signup with any club that has an opening on a day I'm available. If you want your club to book at PittRace, don't wait. I'm pretty sure they sold out the track early last year.

I gotta look at Motorsport Reg calendar. Coming from 18901 so definitely two day event.

I have DSSV package coming to me soon. Guess I'll find out soon enough if they are worth the effort.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by NickyRacerBoy; 01-01-2019 at 09:52 PM.
NickyRacerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2019, 12:29 PM   #114
Jimbeau11
 
Jimbeau11's Avatar
 
Drives: '18 Black SS 1LE; '01 Corvette Z06
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Posts: 119
Just read this entire thread over lunch today. Was considering buying a DSSV setup used for cheap but since I haven't even driven my SS1LE on track yet, I think I'll just pass. Sounds like the solid cradle bushing kit is a must though.

Thanks again this is one of the most informative posts I've ever seen.
Jimbeau11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2019, 02:16 PM   #115
TRZ06

 
TRZ06's Avatar
 
Drives: 22' Porsche PDK GT4
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 2,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbeau11 View Post
Just read this entire thread over lunch today. Was considering buying a DSSV setup used for cheap but since I haven't even driven my SS1LE on track yet, I think I'll just pass. Sounds like the solid cradle bushing kit is a must though.

Thanks again this is one of the most informative posts I've ever seen.
Indeed, if you are a suspension guy and care about handling, this is an amazing thread.

You are spot on with the rear solid cradle bushings, that is the only weak point on the SS 1LE.

The rear-end moves around a little too much in stock form when really pushing it and especially when doing evasive or transition maneuvers. With the solid cradle bushings, it makes it feel Porsche laser accurate in the rear.
__________________
Current:
22' Porsche PDK GT4 (MCS 2-way remote dampers)

Previous:
18' NFG 2SS 1LE (ZL1 1LE solid rear cradle bushings & Corsa Exhaust)
16' F80 M3 (Ohlin R/T Coilovers)
13' Audi TTRS (APR Stage 1, MSS Springs)
09' C6 Z06
08' E90 M3
06' 335i (KW V2 Coilovers)
03' C5 Z06
TRZ06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2019, 10:39 PM   #116
Racing89
 
Racing89's Avatar
 
Drives: '18 C7 GS '18 SS 1LE '93 NSX
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Maryland
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
Agreed regarding the DSC Controller. From all the info. I have gathered, all they are doing are changing the values of when the shocks does what it does stock. Some say it makes the car feel less stable because they are softening up the shock initially.

In order for MRC to get better than what it is stock, you would have to re-shape the tuning curve of the shocks and make them react even faster to recover when the suspension gets upset mid-corner.

For an example of this, take a ride in a high-end coilover setup and see how fast the shocks recover when upset, this is how a MRC tuning would make it better, not simply just softening up the ride and changing when the stock tuning happens, like DSC does.
You are way off in regards to the DSC Controller. There are 100K things that you are not considering. Yes MRC/ specifically the magnetic fluid has its limitations. First think about how that fluid reacts at different temperatures, does GM compensate?? The DSC controller changes curves, allows virtually unlimited customization of so many aspects of the suspension that you will never get from std coilovers. How would you like less brake dive at 75% brake pressure- or 100%. I cant even begin to touch on the amount of research and development that has gone into the DSC Controller, the programming etc, to think that it softens a few things up or just changes a few things is very short sited. Go drive a ZL1 or SS 1LE at the track with and with out and then please do give your opinion. I can tell you that its night and day better, if you want to go to the moon, give it another couple months when thay have the RTx shocks for the Camaro, that combination will run circles around any other set-up-
Racing89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2019, 10:47 PM   #117
Racing89
 
Racing89's Avatar
 
Drives: '18 C7 GS '18 SS 1LE '93 NSX
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Maryland
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyRacerBoy View Post
I gotta look at Motorsport Reg calendar. Coming from 18901 so definitely two day event.

I have DSSV package coming to me soon. Guess I'll find out soon enough if they are worth the effort.
Cancel That order, if you can wait a little longer the DSC- RTx shocks will be available- Get better track performance and maintain all the benefits of MRC.

BTW- No I dont work for nor am I being paid by DSC Sport- I do know them, Have used their products on my C7- Z06, C7 - GS (Mid Atlantic NASA TTU Regional champion) and My 2 Camaro 1LE's.
1:50.3 Pittrace - C7- GS R'7s DSC controller- Stock motor- and 3600+ lbs
Racing89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 09:53 AM   #118
FNxR3DNECK


 
FNxR3DNECK's Avatar
 
Drives: 2017 SS 1LE
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 2,473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racing89 View Post
Cancel That order, if you can wait a little longer the DSC- RTx shocks will be available- Get better track performance and maintain all the benefits of MRC.

BTW- No I dont work for nor am I being paid by DSC Sport- I do know them, Have used their products on my C7- Z06, C7 - GS (Mid Atlantic NASA TTU Regional champion) and My 2 Camaro 1LE's.
1:50.3 Pittrace - C7- GS R'7s DSC controller- Stock motor- and 3600+ lbs
Pretty sure I saw you in the GS out at Summit back November, that car is mean! I think you are definitely on to something with the DSC, if it's even close to the DSSVs I would say it's 100% worth money though I know some people are still kinda skeptical.

I know this is a bit off subject for the thread but in your opinion (as a 1LE owner as well as your GS) what would you do for a TT3 build on an SS 1LE? I was considering this recently, looking at 18s, R7s, DSSVs and maybe aero. And the RTx whatever they are coming out with soon, is that shocks or springs? I saw a guy on FB talking about that this morning saying they were coming out with springs to use with the stock dampers + their controller.

Riding shotgun in a ZL1 1LE on VIR this year sold me pretty good on the DSSVs, I need to ride in/drive an SS 1LE with the DSC setup to at least compare the feel of them.
__________________
IG: @NC_M1SS1LE
FNxR3DNECK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 10:04 AM   #119
Ryephile
Hot Dog
 
Ryephile's Avatar
 
Drives: '17 1SS 1LE
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 1,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racing89 View Post
You are way off in regards to the DSC Controller. ... Go drive a ZL1 or SS 1LE at the track with and with out and then please do give your opinion. I can tell you that its night and day better,...
He's not "way off" whatsoever. I was an early adopter. It's night and day alright. The OEM controller is correctly engineered, whereas the DSC is typical half-ass aftermarket.

The major crutch the DSC controller has is it doesn't use corner ride heights in it's calculations, and it's always reactive in X and Y axes, not predictive. The DSC software doesn't account for Z-axis position or acceleration whatsoever. It can't know if the car is floating mid-jump or being compressed in a banked turn. This is why the DSC controller can never be as good as this generation of OEM MRC.

The only successes are guys that have vested interests in DSC and are auto-xing with no vertical undulations. It's a particular use case that doesn't apply to road or track.
__________________
2017 "M1SS1LE" in Hyper Blue w/PDR
Ryephile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 10:29 AM   #120
Ryephile
Hot Dog
 
Ryephile's Avatar
 
Drives: '17 1SS 1LE
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 1,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racing89 View Post
You are way off in regards to the DSC Controller. There are 100K things that you are not considering. Yes MRC/ specifically the magnetic fluid has its limitations. First think about how that fluid reacts at different temperatures, does GM compensate?? The DSC controller changes curves, allows virtually unlimited customization of so many aspects of the suspension that you will never get from std coilovers. How would you like less brake dive at 75% brake pressure- or 100%. I cant even begin to touch on the amount of research and development that has gone into the DSC Controller, the programming etc, to think that it softens a few things up or just changes a few things is very short sited. Go drive a ZL1 or SS 1LE at the track with and with out and then please do give your opinion. I can tell you that its night and day better, if you want to go to the moon, give it another couple months when thay have the RTx shocks for the Camaro, that combination will run circles around any other set-up-
I'm going to go deeper into this comment because it's simply chock full of ignorance and shilling.

Quote:
First think about how that fluid reacts at different temperatures, does GM compensate??
Can you prove it doesn't?

Quote:
The DSC controller changes curves, allows virtually unlimited customization of so many aspects of the suspension that you will never get from std coilovers.
This was never in question. The comparison might be to spool-valve dampers, but in your context you're completely ignoring the dynamically active calculations in the OEM MRC controller, something the DSC doesn't do. Your asserting is akin to a marketing sheet for Megan coilovers; "So many features" and yet none of them are calibrated for the platform.

Quote:
How would you like less brake dive at 75% brake pressure- or 100%.
That's not how springs work. Increasing the damping force during brake pressure changes the rate of weight transfer, but dampers cannot change the amount of dive. You fundamentally misunderstand the physics.

Quote:
I cant even begin to touch on the amount of research and development that has gone into the DSC Controller, the programming etc,
Oh this is a good one. Implying DSC has more development resources than the Camaro team is a joke and a half. It's plain as day you've swished and swallowed their kool-aid right here. If they did that much R&D, where's the Z-axis in the calculations? Oops.

Quote:
I can tell you that its night and day better,
Night and day, yes. "better", hardly.
__________________
2017 "M1SS1LE" in Hyper Blue w/PDR
Ryephile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2019, 12:29 AM   #121
NickyRacerBoy

 
Drives: 1LE
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: East Coast
Posts: 1,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racing89 View Post
Cancel That order, if you can wait a little longer the DSC- RTx shocks will be available- Get better track performance and maintain all the benefits of MRC.

BTW- No I dont work for nor am I being paid by DSC Sport- I do know them, Have used their products on my C7- Z06, C7 - GS (Mid Atlantic NASA TTU Regional champion) and My 2 Camaro 1LE's.
1:50.3 Pittrace - C7- GS R'7s DSC controller- Stock motor- and 3600+ lbs
Wow...when I asked about DSC controller about 9 months ago I heard nothing but crickets!
From the only posts I could find were Corvette owners saying how much plush the ride was cruising down the highway.
If I didnt buy DSSV I'll go threw Phoenix Racing and get a set of Penski. Andrew Aquitaine and Kurt K. Move pretty good.
NickyRacerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2019, 12:40 AM   #122
NickyRacerBoy

 
Drives: 1LE
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: East Coast
Posts: 1,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryephile View Post
He's not "way off" whatsoever. I was an early adopter. It's night and day alright. The OEM controller is correctly engineered, whereas the DSC is typical half-ass aftermarket.

The major crutch the DSC controller has is it doesn't use corner ride heights in it's calculations, and it's always reactive in X and Y axes, not predictive. The DSC software doesn't account for Z-axis position or acceleration whatsoever. It can't know if the car is floating mid-jump or being compressed in a banked turn. This is why the DSC controller can never be as good as this generation of OEM MRC.

The only successes are guys that have vested interests in DSC and are auto-xing with no vertical undulations. It's a particular use case that doesn't apply to road or track.

Racer89 is it true that DSC doesn't ride height or speed to do calculations? I hope your reply to shed some light on this if you don't that will be disappointing.
NickyRacerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2019, 05:04 PM   #123
F1FTY

 
Drives: 2018 ZL1
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: At the Dealership
Posts: 1,019
Something else to add about the DSC controller is despite having new hardware/firmware from what Ryephile used, this latest version didn’t have support for our 2018/2019 PTM. I don’t know if this was updated or not as the website used to say that they’re working on it.

My experience with the previous controller was not that great in the minimal time on the street I kept it on. The car felt lighter and more athletic but it didn’t handle bumps well at all and would jack rabbit over the largest ones. The controller was sent back for repair after it would give me repeated “suspension service” error popups on the gauge cluster display and couldn’t be detected on my laptop for software updating.

DSC sent me their brand new hardware setup at no cost after I waited several months for a new controller but with my ZL1 sidelined, it’s sat in the box so I can’t say what’s better or worse with the new controller yet. If they are still without PTM support it is a big problem and tells me the product is probably half-baked from having the hardware release pushed back for so many months and trying to get something to market before the software is ready.

I would confirm PTM support if you want a DSC controller and own a 2018/2019.

Last edited by F1FTY; 01-06-2019 at 05:20 PM.
F1FTY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2019, 07:16 PM   #124
TRZ06

 
TRZ06's Avatar
 
Drives: 22' Porsche PDK GT4
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 2,013
Racing 89 has 9 posts. It definitely feels like a shill to me.

based on the research I have done on it , there are more negatives things out there than positive ones.

GM has done MRC for a long time now and has it down better than the Ford applications, I am bound to trust GM's calibrations.

I had MRC on my Audi TTRS as well and Audi has it dialed in too.
__________________
Current:
22' Porsche PDK GT4 (MCS 2-way remote dampers)

Previous:
18' NFG 2SS 1LE (ZL1 1LE solid rear cradle bushings & Corsa Exhaust)
16' F80 M3 (Ohlin R/T Coilovers)
13' Audi TTRS (APR Stage 1, MSS Springs)
09' C6 Z06
08' E90 M3
06' 335i (KW V2 Coilovers)
03' C5 Z06
TRZ06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 10:25 PM   #125
NickyRacerBoy

 
Drives: 1LE
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: East Coast
Posts: 1,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1FTY View Post
Something else to add about the DSC controller is despite having new hardware/firmware from what Ryephile used, this latest version didn’t have support for our 2018/2019 PTM. I don’t know if this was updated or not as the website used to say that they’re working on it.

My experience with the previous controller was not that great in the minimal time on the street I kept it on. The car felt lighter and more athletic but it didn’t handle bumps well at all and would jack rabbit over the largest ones. The controller was sent back for repair after it would give me repeated “suspension service” error popups on the gauge cluster display and couldn’t be detected on my laptop for software updating.

DSC sent me their brand new hardware setup at no cost after I waited several months for a new controller but with my ZL1 sidelined, it’s sat in the box so I can’t say what’s better or worse with the new controller yet. If they are still without PTM support it is a big problem and tells me the product is probably half-baked from having the hardware release pushed back for so many months and trying to get something to market before the software is ready.

I would confirm PTM support if you want a DSC controller and own a 2018/2019.
Man! With a reply like that I can't wait for tomorrow morning so that when I jump out of bed the first thing I'm going to do is order a DSC and I'm even going to have them overnighted it.
NickyRacerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 10:32 PM   #126
NickyRacerBoy

 
Drives: 1LE
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: East Coast
Posts: 1,468
I guess I'm an ass- for ordering the spool valve shocks
NickyRacerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Post Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.