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Old 06-24-2020, 08:42 AM   #15
JANNETTYRACING

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Choda View Post
I think Fore would have a better market if they offered factory hookups instead of having to run new AN hose. My guess is that for a single or dual pump intank setup, the factory connections and hookup would suffice. Id guess the triple pump would need -8 feed/return/fpr...
Fuel system is only as good as its smallest hole.

Bends reduce flow also.

Ted.
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Old 06-24-2020, 01:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
Fuel system is only as good as its smallest hole.

Bends reduce flow also.

Ted.
Id love to get with you ted and do our own Custom Super street brawler package but with the whipple instead of the maggie... time to save up and get it done in the winter i think
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Old 06-24-2020, 01:28 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by OnThr3 View Post
Id love to get with you ted and do our own Custom Super street brawler package but with the whipple instead of the maggie... time to save up and get it done in the winter i think
Ready when you are my friend, Whipples are Killing it with big power numbers check our our videos on facebook.
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Old 07-07-2020, 11:22 PM   #18
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I had a DSX aux pump kit on my ZL1 until I figured out you can't rely on it below 1/2 tank of fuel. Our cars have a saddle tank and there isn't any baffling to prevent the fuel from completely transferring from one side to the other. When you have 1/2 tank of fuel or less, a hard right turn will transfer every drop of fuel to the left side of the saddle leaving the right side completely dry. So an aux pump that only taps the right side of the tank won't do anything at all on a hard pull after a hard right turn (common on a road course).

Honestly, in addition to this major design flaw, the DSX aux kit has many problems that make it an engineering joke. This kit isn't controlled by PWM... it's completely on or completely off. This creates a tuning nightmare which is why DSX offers absolutely no guidance on how to tune around their kit. They hide behind statements like take it to a "competent tuner" implying if you don't know how then you're incompetent. The truth is, these kits are impossible to make work correctly. If it were possible, they could tell you how to do it. Making adjustments to the tables they recommend will have negative consequences.

They have a very similar story for the tapered tank fitting. They act like if your fitting leaks then you've done the install incorrectly. The truth is it'd be nothing short of a miracle to get this fitting to seal considering how thin our fuel tanks are. I ended up having to drop my tank and put a bulkhead fitting to get it to seal up. Oh, when I dropped the tank, I found it was full of plastic shavings where I drilled the hole. I was EXTREMELY careful while drilling. I backflushed the hole with gas and everything. I thought I had every last plastic shaving out of the tank. I was blown away with how much debris was still trapped in the tank. If you have the DSX kit, check your fuel filter on the aux pump. I bet it's full of plastic shavings sucked in from the tank.

I spent around $1,000 in dyno time just trying to get my kit working. I finally hacked something together that resembled working, but compromises had to be made. I also spent hours dropping the tank to get a reliable tap.

In spite of all of the effort, the car would occasionally drop fuel pressure and run lean. I eventually figured out what was going on when realized it only happened with 1/2 tank or less of fuel and I logged both in-tank fuel level sensors. I pulled this kit from my car immediately before it cost me an engine.

If anyone is putting together a museum of poorly engineered aftermarket accessories and would like to buy my DSX aux pump kit, I have one with very little use for sale.
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Last edited by travislambert; 07-07-2020 at 11:52 PM.
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Old 07-08-2020, 07:13 AM   #19
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I don't see how the DSX pump effects fueling, it turns on at say 5 PSI and supplies about 80 PSI of fuel, about the time when the stock pump is unable to maintain 80 PSI, I've looked at my fuel graph (low pressure side) hundreds of times, there is no big spike. The only caveat that I can make is I also installed a LT4 Low pump in tank. I also custom orders a 2 PSI turn op pressure.

The only way I can see the secondary pump effect tuning is if it were coming on late and you had a weak factory intake pump (early SS).

I've found DSX very supportive and a quality product.
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Old 07-08-2020, 07:14 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parbreak View Post
Yep that would be me. We used a Holley pump for our install.
Yeah great work.


Fore setup looks great, It just is more expensive, but I can see this for 850+ WHP setups. The LPE setup looks great (don't know who actually makes it).
https://www.foreinnovations.com/product_p/84-302.htm
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Old 07-08-2020, 07:44 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman View Post
I don't see how the DSX pump effects fueling, it turns on at say 5 PSI and supplies about 80 PSI of fuel, about the time when the stock pump is unable to maintain 80 PSI, I've looked at my fuel graph (low pressure side) hundreds of times, there is no big spike. The only caveat that I can make is I also installed a LT4 Low pump in tank. I also custom orders a 2 PSI turn op pressure.

The only way I can see the secondary pump effect tuning is if it were coming on late and you had a weak factory intake pump (early SS).

I've found DSX very supportive and a quality product.
After you discover the flaws with the kit and ask Dave about it, the support disappears. He will ghost you, because he knows the kit has issues that he can't acknowledge.

The idea of how it works seems great. I bought into it too. The problem comes in when you validate that it maintains proper fuel pressure in all scenarios.

My car is a manual transmission. I could make my engine run lean just by shifting slowly between 4th and 5th. At the end of 4th the aux pump is running at its max and the intank pump is running at whatever speed needed to make up the difference between between the aux pump and the fuel demand. As you shift, the fuel demand suddenly drops and the pressure spikes very high 600 kPa+. The car then commands the intank pump to its minimum duty cycle to get the pressure down to commanded...so the pump slows to barely moving. As you complete the shift and go wide open again, the in tank pump doesn't start to increase its duty cycle until the pressure drops below the commanded pressure in spite of the fact that the fuel demand is high and the pressure is dropping fast. By the time the computer realizes the intank pump needs to speed back up, pressure is well below commanded...not to mention there is a mechanical latency for the pump to actually get up to speed. The engine will momentarily run lean every time.

That's just one example of something you have to tune for. It is possible to tune around that scenario, but you have to command much higher fuel pressures to avoid pressure drops below 500 kPa.

The issue with the DSX kit only pulling from one side of the tank is a real problem if you ever go wide open throttle after a hard right turn. On a clockwise roadcourse, this is common scenario. I kept seeing major fuel pressure drops with a 1/2 tank of gas, but on the dyno it worked fine. It wasn't until I logged the fuel level sensors independently until I realized how often the right side tank doesn't have any fuel in it at all. If there's no fuel in the right side tank, and you got WOT, that's a recipe for a new engine.

I couldn't disagree more about the quality kit comment. Maybe the parts seem nice, but the poor design that doesn't account for the fact we have a saddle tank could have cost me an engine.
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Old 07-08-2020, 09:40 AM   #22
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I could have mounted mine a tad bit lower, I never run below 1/4 tank. I could see an issue on a road course. This reminds me of the "boost bros", they have a 987 Cayman with exhaust and intake plenum, they take it out and do like 20 donuts and bam, spun rod bearing, like dude all the oil is flung to the side of your boxer engine and of course you going to spin a bearing. The car engine combination in specific CAN'T do donuts.
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Forged short block, large duration sub .600 lift Cam Motion cam, 7200 RPM fuel cut, Pray Ported Heads, 3.85 pulley D1X, stage II intercooler, DSX secondary low side, DSX E85 sensor, Lingenfelter big bore 2.0 pump, ported front cats, 60608 Borla, LT4 injectors, ZL1 1LE driveshaft and Katech ported TB, ported MSD intake, BTR valvetrain, ARP studs, ProFlow valves, PS4 tires.

Last edited by oldman; 07-08-2020 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 07-08-2020, 10:04 AM   #23
travislambert

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman View Post
I could have mounted mine a tad bit lower, I never run below 1/4 tank. I could see an issue on a road course.
Honestly, I don't think a road course is required to reproduce the issue. I have logs showing the problem at 1/2 tank of fuel.. so you really have to stay above half to avoid the issue. A spirited drive around a tight radius entrance ramp would probably be enough to get all of the fuel to transfer from one side of the tank to the other. A low mount point on the fitting won't save you either because literally every drop of fuel will migrate to the other side of the tank. If you have HP Tuners (or another logging tool), I encourage you to log both fuel level sensors and see for yourself.

Have you ever put something in the back seat and took a turn hard enough where the object rolls from one side to the other? That's all it takes to get the fuel to transfer over too. If there's no fuel in the rightside tank the aux pump isn't going to be there to support the tank pump when needed. Assuming there is a need for the aux pump in the first place, then it's a real problem.
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Last edited by travislambert; 07-08-2020 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 07-08-2020, 10:34 AM   #24
oldman


 
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I would agree here, my car is staightline. I do use some power to straighten the car out on turn exit with traction control on ( super fun) like I'm a drift king.
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Forged short block, large duration sub .600 lift Cam Motion cam, 7200 RPM fuel cut, Pray Ported Heads, 3.85 pulley D1X, stage II intercooler, DSX secondary low side, DSX E85 sensor, Lingenfelter big bore 2.0 pump, ported front cats, 60608 Borla, LT4 injectors, ZL1 1LE driveshaft and Katech ported TB, ported MSD intake, BTR valvetrain, ARP studs, ProFlow valves, PS4 tires.
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