[Mountain]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

I’m running my car in track mode race 2 for the first time this season (its my 2nd season) and my understanding Is that this mode has the least amount of nannies, however when I watch my track footage I still get that Loss of Traction symbol popping up once in a while, does that mean that the computer is still making adjustments for me or getting involved somehow? Or is it just saying that I have wheel slippage?

I've done same track, same day, back-to-back PTM Race vs Track/all OFF to understand this very point.

From what I can gather, both driving and PDR data, is that the "blips" of TC intervention are very, very minute adjustments to the vehicle as you go outside of the race-inspired TC settings. The TC events are not anything substantial - think of it like this: your just going a few slip % over the threshold and the computer is just making small corrections (i.e. you are doing 26% slip when the computer is set to allow 24%; don't think of it as you are doing 40% slip and the computer is set to allow 10%). The adjustments aren't anything you will notice/feel if you had run Track/all OFF from a traction perspective (but the vehicle will feel different due to the eDiff being a bit different and how the TC intervention affects the vehicle line through a corner).

[NickyRacerBoy]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

So the computer is still active in the least invasive of all modes... good to know, thanks

Just turn it all off!

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by Mountain

I've done same track, same day, back-to-back PTM Race vs Track/all OFF to understand this very point.

From what I can gather, both driving and PDR data, is that the "blips" of TC intervention are very, very minute adjustments to the vehicle as you go outside of the race-inspired TC settings. The TC events are not anything substantial - think of it like this: your just going a few slip % over the threshold and the computer is just making small corrections (i.e. you are doing 26% slip when the computer is set to allow 24%; don't think of it as you are doing 40% slip and the computer is set to allow 10%). The adjustments aren't anything you will notice/feel if you had run Track/all OFF from a traction perspective (but the vehicle will feel different due to the eDiff being a bit different and how the TC intervention affects the vehicle line through a corner).

Thanks that’s really good to know.

Just curious, how do you know the differences Between TC slip are that small?

Which option did you prefer more between the two and why?

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by NickyRacerBoy

Just turn it all off!

I might just do that, there is one corner that my car is struggling around ever since I put SC3R’s on it... It almost starts locking up like a locked diff (The corner is a tight off camber uphill right turn) and it seems to be the EDiff that is struggling.

[NickyRacerBoy]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

I might just do that, there is one corner that my car is struggling around ever since I put SC3R’s on it... It almost starts locking up like a locked diff (The corner is a tight off camber uphill right turn) and it seems to be the EDiff that is struggling.

Go for it and never look back!

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Thanks that’s really good to know.

Just curious, how do you know the differences Between TC slip are that small?

Which option did you prefer more between the two and why?

It's sort of a guesstimate between the level of felt intrusion (basically un-noticeable) and looking at PDR TC cycling (where, duration and frequency). The numbers themselves, in the example, I made up for conveying the idea.

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by Mountain

It's sort of a guesstimate between the level of felt intrusion (basically un-noticeable) and looking at PDR TC cycling (where, duration and frequency). The numbers themselves, in the example, I made up for conveying the idea.

I appreciate the clarification

[NickyRacerBoy]

I broke my personal best lap time with it all off

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by NickyRacerBoy

I broke my personal best lap time with it all off

Now you have my attention!

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by NickyRacerBoy

Hopefully Ediff will help traction exiting slow spped turns with Track.
I basically thought thatcit all did not matter if if it all was "turned off"
Got me?

Got ya! Thanks x2 incl Fozzie

[NickyRacerBoy]

My kids!

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Now you have my attention!

Be careful

I dont know if Nicky Bobby realizes you only got about 10 track days (?) under your belt this far and you have already switched to sticky tires, which will be less forgiving skip angles wise (you may recall our old discussion on this). I have seen very experienced ppl wreck cars due to power on oversteer and you have not even tried a Race mode yet (which reduces TC substantially, leaving more overslip corrections to the driver). Lastly, while some folks may be faster with all off (or simply manage to log a new PB because they happen to put together a fine lap), many are faster in Race. That's all i will say on this subject, except for suggesting you re read the GM engineer comments in my PTM sticky.

Now about them flashing TC symbols Firstly, Mountain has done a superb job explaining it based on his tests.
We dont know if the flashing symbol indicates overslip, or TC intervention, or both. Or to what extent. Etc.

So, one must rely on *feel* and data comparison between say PTM Race vs none to gauge a difference.
When i tested all modes over 3 years ago, i picked one tight exit corner and purposely kept over driving it to see what happens. With TC on, when the yaw was great (read: rear tires are already struggling to maintain traction due to cornering forces asked of them) when i added power, the engine refused to give me power (as there was insufficient traction to corner AND forward acceleration). With all off, the same corner, the car would very suddenly try to swap ends for the same reason.

While the GM engineer says TC is NOT a safety feature (but rather a feature to maximize forward traction and hence pace), and while PTM Race is very slight - still requiring a driver to pay attention and correct any excessive overslip, it does provide a safety net of sorts (IMO), by eliminating the need to correct minute overslip conditions. And for a vast majority of us, it will make us faster, as each and every overslip will affect forward movement AND require a correction (however small or big). Basically, because the car is a bit esier to drive.
Lastly, i completely get why some folks may prefer all off as it requires 100% driver engagement. While PTM Race may perhaps lower that to 95-98% or something like that. But, there is still plenty of engagement left either way

As far as your "trouble corner": as Randy Pobst says: the way to drive slow corners fast, is to go slow. In other words, allow the car to rotate more before applying power. This is particularly true in uphill corners, as the induce understeer. So, try lowering your entry speed, to rotate faster and this should allow you to get on the power sooner and harded, without the car fighting your inputs. Note that if you turn TC off the ediff calibration wont change much. But if you continue to drive this corner the same way, you may experience a sudden oversteer when fronts grab. Usually this happens quite suddenly, resulting in a violent spin to the inside. This usually happens when folks ignore initial understeer, add tons of power and then suddenly become "spectators".

Bottom line: no reason to freak out when the TC symbol is flashing. Overslip conditions are normal when pushing any car. The difference is in PTM Race we see them. With all off we dont (on PDR). Small overslips are fine and TC Race simply smooths them out for best forward movement. You can still over drive PTM Race and have to catch the car, so be aware of it. This is especially true in faster corners, wheŕe the car will have bigger momentum. Tons depends on yaw angles as they affect overall traction. No matter what mode one uses, the key is to FEEL what the car is doing. Period. Full stop. Those that ask the car to perform unnatural acts usually end up on a wrecker. Another period. Full stop.

Cheers!

[RUQWIKR]

Look at the data using the PI Toolbox. I'm pretty sure you can see how much is traction vs. stability control if you want that breakdown. I suck at navigating around PI Toolbox, but, I have seen that type of data in there if memory serves me correctly.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by RUQWIKR

Look at the data using the PI Toolbox. I'm pretty sure you can see how much is traction vs. stability control if you want that breakdown. I suck at navigating around PI Toolbox, but, I have seen that type of data in there if memory serves me correctly.

He runs Sport2 now so no ESC, just TC.