[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Because they can make more money for the Bullitt. and why no PP2 and A10? Probably the same reason no A8 and 1LE?

If they were going to make the Bullitt with M6 only, and the PP2 is manual trans only, then they could have made the Bullitt with the PP2. AT this rate the Bullitt, despite the extra cost, won't fare any better around a track than the PP1 GT. And it probably won't do much better than the A10 GT in the quarter mile. So what are you paying the extra money for if it isn't better around a track and isn't much better in a straight line?

[FastCarFanBoy]

You either get it or you don’t. You may not get it, but I suspect you do and are trying to be provocative.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

You either get it or you don’t. You may not get it, but I suspect you do and are trying to be provocative.

Chill the hell out bro. It's not my fault that Ford played a dumbass game here and roped people along while milking them out of their money. For all the extra money of the Bullitt and the extra hp, it won't beat the A8 SS with that M6 and it won't beat the 1LE on the PP1 package. So what are you really paying for? Oh right, a more expensive GT with 15 extra hp that still loses...

[Norm Peterson]

Ford probably figures there's enough people who'd buy the Bullitt on its name/image alone. The small HP bump will attract a few more who need the additional bragging rights. They did the same thing back in 2008 (including the few extra HP), but what the Bullitt offered that the regular GT didn't (that I wasn't going to upgrade to or beyond Bullitt specs anyway) wasn't worth the upcharge for me either.

I agree that the Bullitt should be getting the PP2, but since the original Bullitt and all of its heritage comes from one individual's Mustang I don't agree that the Bullitt name should ever be tied to an automatic. I'm not against the PP2/A10 combination, just that such a car should carry some other name from the past, like probably 'Mach 1', as that name has recognition and already has been applied to AT-equipped cars.


Norm

[crysalis_01]

Blaq, I don't think you "don't get it" it's just that you're looking at this from the perspective of an enthusiast, which, you should, you are one. However, those making these calls aren't looking at it as such, their eyes are trained on bottom lines and cost efficiency.

I'll quote myself from earlier in this very thread:

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

Ford does like to put in the absolute minimum effort into their GT offerings... probably why I've never owned a GT. But the thought occurred to me, why should they?

Do I think it would be cool if they did? Yeah, hell yeah. But from a business point of view, what does Ford have to gain by shooting for the performance crown with the GT? A much larger investment cost due to tons more R&D?

Let's say they went this route, what would they gain? Sales, they seem to be doing just fine. Better results in mag comparisons? Aside from us enthusiasts, who reads these? A pat on the back from us, said enthusiasts? Ok, sure, but what's that worth to them?

Look, I'm by no means rooting for them to do the bare minimum. Its actually a bit annoying, to someone that understands performance metrics, but from a profit producing/business side, I can understand it. Mustang, as it stands, doesn't need to lead the performance pack to accomplish the goal set for it by Ford. The car market isn't exactly a cash cow, so why invest more than necessary in a niche segment in a dwindling market?

Honestly, I imagine I'll still continue just not buying GT's, currently I'm always on the look out for a deal on a used GT350 to pick up, maybe a early Tech Pack car, but I'm in no real hurry.

Anyway, carry on. This was just like...my opinion...man.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

Blaq, I don't think you "don't get it" it's just that you're looking at this from the perspective of an enthusiast, which, you should, you are one. However, those making these calls aren't looking at it as such, their eyes are trained on bottom lines and cost efficiency.

I'll quote myself from earlier in this very thread:

Good point. I get it. I'm just wondering exactly how much you can milk people for before actually making a car that can beat the competition. I get that Ford wants to sell cars and that is cool. But when you're looking across all the versions of GTs that they have and see that if they took this engine and paired it with that trans and threw it on that suspension...well that would piss me off. Either way it will sell. I personally would not buy one simply because of all this. I mean, they literally have all the ingredients to beat the SS 1LE but they spread it out in different trims, lol.

And while an A10 PP2 Mustang GT with 475 hp would be awesome, I gotta wonder if it would elbow in too close to GT350 territory. I hate to bring it up yet again. But Ford had to have known that all these parts together would possibly beat the 1LE and then end up too close to the Shelby or surpassing it. Because I am sure that people would have paid the money for this combination if it could beat the 1LE. So selling them isn't the issue.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Chill the hell out bro. It's not my fault that Ford played a dumbass game here and roped people along while milking them out of their money. For all the extra money of the Bullitt and the extra hp, it won't beat the A8 SS with that M6 and it won't beat the 1LE on the PP1 package. So what are you really paying for? Oh right, a more expensive GT with 15 extra hp that still loses...

Why are you comparing A8 vs M6 times. By this logic the most expensive optioned M6 SS is a failure because it can't beat the base model A10 GT.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Good point. I get it. I'm just wondering exactly how much you can milk people for before actually making a car that can beat the competition. I get that Ford wants to sell cars and that is cool. But when you're looking across all the versions of GTs that they have and see that if they took this engine and paired it with that trans and threw it on that suspension...well that would piss me off. Either way it will sell. I personally would not buy one simply because of all this. I mean, they literally have all the ingredients to beat the SS 1LE but they spread it out in different trims, lol.

And while an A10 PP2 Mustang GT with 475 hp would be awesome, I gotta wonder if it would elbow in too close to GT350 territory. I hate to bring it up yet again. But Ford had to have known that all these parts together would possibly beat the 1LE and then end up too close to the Shelby or surpassing it. Because I am sure that people would have paid the money for this combination if it could beat the 1LE. So selling them isn't the issue.

I do believe taking out one of the key components of getting around the track and from the drivers hand andleaving it up to a computer will always attract more buyers ,but i think it won't be enough to beat the 1Le . I have said it before and will always believe that Ford just don't care , Ford have said themselves its about the drivers experience not the numbers . The PP2 will have to be faster around the track then the GT350R to BEAT the 1Le .The A10 in the PP2 will make it easier for more people to get it around a track and may sell more but who cares .

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

The A10 in the PP2 will make it easier for more people to get it around a track and may sell more but who cares .

PP2 will be manual only.... no A10.... unless you are saying they need to make it available to the A10...

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Why are you comparing A8 vs M6 times. By this logic the most expensive optioned M6 SS is a failure because it can't beat the base model A10 GT.

His point was that the Bullitt’s extra power combined with the M6 and PP1 won’t be better at anything. Ford has the right parts to make a winner but chose not to.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

why didn't Ford ...throw the Bullitt engine in with the A10 trans and the PP2 stuff? It would have been pretty impressive. I mean instead of taking all the best parts and separating...

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The Bullitt has more HP than the GT and is on the PP1 setup. ...Ford should have made a version of the Mustang with the 475 hp engine, the PP2 setup, and the option to get the M6 or A10 trans.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

If they were going to make the Bullitt with M6 only, and the PP2 is manual trans only, then they could have made the Bullitt with the PP2.

...the Bullitt, despite the extra cost, won't fare any better around a track than the PP1 GT. And it probably won't do much better than the A10 GT in the quarter mile. So what are you paying the extra money for if it isn't better around a track and isn't much better in a straight line?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

The PP2 will have to be faster around the track then the GT350R to BEAT the 1Le .The A10 in the PP2 will make it easier for more people to get it around a track and may sell more but who cares .

Or at least faster around the track than the GT350 non-R. And that is where the problem with the S550 is. I don't think Ford has ever made a GT that was faster than a higher tier V8 Mustang at anything in the same generation...even when the GT was given a boost. So I doubt the GT will beat the SS at all this entire Generation considering it would have to beat the Shelby or come too close to the Shelby to justify Shelby prices, lol!! Even if they bring out a Mach 1 or Boss 302, are they really going to push it past the GT350R? I think not. For this S550 lineup I think we have seen the best that we'll see in NA trim. All that remains is for the GT500 to show up. And they're gonna have to really nail it. And even if they do I still don't think it'll beat the A10 ZL1 in the quarter or the ZL1 1LE around a track. And isn't the Z28 coming out also??

Originally Posted by hotlap

His point was that the Bullitt’s extra power combined with the M6 and PP1 won’t be better at anything. Ford has the right parts to make a winner but chose not to.

Thanks Hotlap. As you can see I say the same thing clearly several times and these Mustang guys STILL don't get it. LOL!!

[kttxz06]

Let's do a refresh in case anyone has forgotten the pecking order.............

Camaro SS > Mustang GT (Insert whatever model including the Bullitt)
Zl1 > GT350 and GT350 R
Zl1 1LE > GT350 and GT350R
Z06 > (Upcoming 500)
ZR1 > Ford GT.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

Let's do a refresh in case anyone has forgotten the pecking order.............

Camaro SS > Mustang GT (Insert whatever model including the Bullitt)
Zl1 > GT350 and GT350 R
Zl1 1LE > GT350 and GT350R
Z06 > (Upcoming 500)
ZR1 > Ford GT.

Isn't bringing Corvette into this a bit belittling to Camaro? Sort of a "my big brother can beat you up!" ideology. Camaro is a great performer and more than capable of fighting its own battles.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

Isn't bringing Corvette into this a bit belittling to Camaro? Sort of a "my big brother can beat you up!" ideology. Camaro is a great performer and more than capable of fighting its own battles.

Hear Hear!!



(7:13, off the record!)