[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

How is a company constantly improving their product a bad thing for the consumer? If you think your new hot ride is going to be the new hot ride for more than a couple years in today’s car market, you’re kidding yourself.

Manufacturers are in the business of selling new cars not protecting previous owners egos

You defend it because you're not one of the people who bought one of these cars just to get blindsided a year later. In fact, all the people on here who defend this nonsense, not one of them been thru that. If you did then trust me, you wouldn't be defending it. Paying $60K and up for a GT350 after markups, or $70K and up on a GT350R after markups, just to have a car that got beat by everything it competes with despite those cars being cheaper, and then to later on have a $30K GT beat it in a straight line, and then the GT500 will destroy it, if you were one of the people who bought this car and are too upside down to trade it in then you wouldn't be soo cavalier about all this. Everytime I hear something like this I am more and more glad that I never bought one of those Shelbys. The non-Rs were going for around the price I got my ZL1 for. And if I had bought one then I'd be pissed off right now.

[Rodan]

If automakers worried about offending last year's buyers, we'd all still be driving 175hp V8s...

You pay your money and you take your chances.

[Ethanolic]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

It can become a bad thing if a 32k 2020 GT is a better performance car than a 2019 70k GT350. I know several people who owned a 2010 Mustang and were pretty upset the 2011 had 100 more horsepower. Or the people who owned a 500 hp 2012 GT500 to see the 13 get 662. Typically those types of gains are in the next generation not the same one.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You defend it because you're not one of the people who bought one of these cars just to get blindsided a year later. In fact, all the people on here who defend this nonsense, not one of them been thru that. If you did then trust me, you wouldn't be defending it. Paying $60K and up for a GT350 after markups, or $70K and up on a GT350R after markups, just to have a car that got beat by everything it competes with despite those cars being cheaper, and then to later on have a $30K GT beat it in a straight line, and then the GT500 will destroy it, if you were one of the people who bought this car and are too upside down to trade it in then you wouldn't be soo cavalier about all this. Everytime I hear something like this I am more and more glad that I never bought one of those Shelbys. The non-Rs were going for around the price I got my ZL1 for. And if I had bought one then I'd be pissed off right now.

A $30k GT that performs like a GT350 is a good thing for consumers. The 350 has been in production for 5yrs already and the writing is on the wall with the PP2 and Bullitt as far as what Ford is capable of offering in the GT if they see fit.


Chevy shouldn’t drop the LT5 in the 2020 ZL1 because current owners will be upset? Silly.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

A $30k GT that performs like a GT350 is a good thing for consumers. The 350 has been in production for 5yrs already and the writing is on the wall with the PP2 and Bullitt as far as what Ford is capable of offering in the GT if they see fit.


Chevy shouldn’t drop the LT5 in the 2020 ZL1 because current owners will be upset? Silly.

It would severely damage the Shelby name and future models would not demand such a high MSRP and definitely not ADM if this kind of thing became the norm. I see the point you are trying to make but at some point it would hurt sales of the higher end models for sure. Why buy a GT500 at all if in two years the GT is better?

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You defend it because you're not one of the people who bought one of these cars just to get blindsided a year later. In fact, all the people on here who defend this nonsense, not one of them been thru that. If you did then trust me, you wouldn't be defending it. Paying $60K and up for a GT350 after markups, or $70K and up on a GT350R after markups, just to have a car that got beat by everything it competes with despite those cars being cheaper, and then to later on have a $30K GT beat it in a straight line, and then the GT500 will destroy it, if you were one of the people who bought this car and are too upside down to trade it in then you wouldn't be soo cavalier about all this. Everytime I hear something like this I am more and more glad that I never bought one of those Shelbys. The non-Rs were going for around the price I got my ZL1 for. And if I had bought one then I'd be pissed off right now.

Quick question what about the guy who shelled out 75k+ for the Z28 only to have Chevy drop the price by 20% or more then introduce a SS just as fast a year later. Should he be pissed as well

[Ethanolic]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

It would severely damage the Shelby name and future models would not demand such a high MSRP and definitely not ADM if this kind of thing became the norm. I see the point you are trying to make but at some point it would hurt sales of the higher end models for sure. Why buy a GT500 at all if in two years the GT is better?

Shelby owners will be fine, trust me.

Originally Posted by newmoon

Quick question what about the guy who shelled out 75k+ for the Z28 only to have Chevy drop the price by 20% or more then introduce a SS just as fast a year later. Should he be pissed as well

That guy will be totally cool with the SS1LE performing as good or better than his Z28 for $30k less because it was a new model.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Quick question what about the guy who shelled out 75k+ for the Z28 only to have Chevy drop the price by 20% or more then introduce a SS just as fast a year later. Should he be pissed as well

Absolutely. And why do you think I chose not to buy one? 1, because I couldn't afford it at the time...2, because it was stripped down of all options...3, because I didn't even think the relatively cheaper ZL1 was worth it's price considering the performance it had over the SS...and 4, because the next Gen was right around the corner and there were already rumors of it's performance.

Did you think I was gonna defend any company that does something like that? But since you're ridiculing GM for that, then are you being a hypocrite and defending Ford or are you ridiculing them as well? Just curious.

And for the record, the difference with what GM did is that the Z28 was 5th Gen and the next Gen was slated to come out and everyone knew it. It is typical for GM, and other companys at that time period at least, to offer up a higher performing car to encourage people to buy instead of seeing sales drop as people wait for the next Gen. So there really is no similarities in what GM did seeing as how that was 2 different Gens and with Ford this is all in the same Gen.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Rodan

If automakers worried about offending last year's buyers, we'd all still be driving 175hp V8s...

You pay your money and you take your chances.

Bit of an exaggeration there...

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

A $30k GT that performs like a GT350 is a good thing for consumers. The 350 has been in production for 5yrs already and the writing is on the wall with the PP2 and Bullitt as far as what Ford is capable of offering in the GT if they see fit.


Chevy shouldn’t drop the LT5 in the 2020 ZL1 because current owners will be upset? Silly.

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

Shelby owners will be fine, trust me.

Yea? Then why did Ford gimp the PP2's legs so that it wouldn't beat the GT350? If Ford really didn't care then they would have went all out on the PP2 instead of holding it back. If they did that and now the GT was faster in a straight line AND around a track, then do you really believe Shelby owners would be fine with it? I know you're not gonna admit it just because. But again, the people who defend this are not the people spending big bucks on what is supposed to be the top performing car. If a version of the SS came out that could beat my ZL1 in anything then I'd be pissed. But the good thing is that we don't have to worry about stuff like that.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

I see you own a M6 Hellcat, have you ever run it down the track?

I took it to the track one time but it was soo crowded that I sat there for 2 hours waiting for a run. When it was finally time, someone in my lane blew up and spilled oil on the track which resulted in another 30 minute delay. I was aggravated, tired, hungry, and I knew they were gonna hotlap me so I chose to leave and had my money returned. That track is now closed and the closest one to me is over an hour and a half away. So it looks like I won't be going any time soon nor do I really care to if I'm to be honest.

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

Chevy shouldn’t drop the LT5 in the 2020 ZL1 because current owners will be upset? Silly.

Yes a LOT of us would be upset if they pulled a move like that. If it was $20K more then it would be fine. But if it was the same price then current owners would be pissed. If you know anything about the auto business, then you would know that the objective is to NOT piss off the people who are buying cars that cost $70K...

[Ethanolic]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Bit of an exaggeration there...


Yea? Then why did Ford gimp the PP2's legs so that it wouldn't beat the GT350? If Ford really didn't care then they would have went all out on the PP2 instead of holding it back. If they did that and now the GT was faster in a straight line AND around a track, then do you really believe Shelby owners would be fine with it? I know you're not gonna admit it just because. But again, the people who defend this are not the people spending big bucks on what is supposed to be the top performing car. If a version of the SS came out that could beat my ZL1 in anything then I'd be pissed. But the good thing is that we don't have to worry about stuff like that.

They gimped the PP2 because the GT350 is designed to be Fords track car and they charge a premium for it, how would it benefit Ford to offer a car for $10k less that delivers similar track performance?

By your rationale GT350 owners will also be pissed when the GT500 drops because it will offer far better performance(assumed) for what? $5k more than an R... I think $70k-$72.5 is a reasonable expectation.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

They gimped the PP2 because the GT350 is designed to be Fords track car and they charge a premium for it, how would it benefit Ford to offer a car for $10k less that delivers similar track performance?

By your rationale GT350 owners will also be pissed when the GT500 drops because it will offer far better performance(assumed) for what? $5k more than an R... I think $70k-$72.5 is a reasonable expectation.

Are Hellcat owners up in arms about the Redeye costing the same.

Couple things here:

The PP2 is offered in the same MY as the 350. Makes no sense to have a car that outperforms the higher and more expensive performance model.

The RE is slightly faster than the standard Hellcat. It is also the higher performing model. If Chevy dropped the LT5 into the SS then yes ZL1 owners would be pissed.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Absolutely. And why do you think I chose not to buy one? 1, because I couldn't afford it at the time...2, because it was stripped down of all options...3, because I didn't even think the relatively cheaper ZL1 was worth it's price considering the performance it had over the SS...and 4, because the next Gen was right around the corner and there were already rumors of it's performance.

Did you think I was gonna defend any company that does something like that? But since you're ridiculing GM for that, then are you being a hypocrite and defending Ford or are you ridiculing them as well? Just curious.

And for the record, the difference with what GM did is that the Z28 was 5th Gen and the next Gen was slated to come out and everyone knew it. It is typical for GM, and other companys at that time period at least, to offer up a higher performing car to encourage people to buy instead of seeing sales drop as people wait for the next Gen. So there really is no similarities in what GM did seeing as how that was 2 different Gens and with Ford this is all in the same Gen.

Mark Reuss even said to the press that performance would jump models going into the new gen.

If you like the ZL1 today, you’re going to love the SS tomorrow. Think about that from a philosophical standpoint.

Mark Reuss - Dec 2014

Gen6 SS ~ Gen5 ZL1
Gen6 SS 1LE ~ gen5 Z/28
C7 GS ~ C6 Z06
C7 Z06 ~ C6 ZR1

Only Ford targeted gen5 performance for their new gen6 S550.
Gen6 GT = Gen5 GT
Gen6 GT350R ~ Gen5 Z/28

[Ethanolic]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Mark Reuss even said to the press that performance would jump models going into the new gen.

I’m sure Mark’s comment in December of ‘14 made all the 2014 ZL1 owners feel great about their purchase.

Regardless... cars evolve, get over it.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

I’m sure Mark’s comment in December of ‘14 made all the 2014 ZL1 owners feel great about their purchase.

Regardless... cars evolve, get over it.

That’s what we’re saying. Generational advancements ...except Ford that somehow targeted 5th gen performance benchmarks for 15-17 and then stepped all over themselves with the 18 overhaul.