[SATINSTEEL1LE]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

I agree, now that I think about it, why else would my brakes start working again so quickly and feel totally fine on the track and the drive home like nothing ever happened.

When the fluid boils, it introduces a ton of bubbles. It doesnt boil away. So when it cools, the pressure goes back up and you have pedal again.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by SATINSTEEL1LE

Im sorry man, but you are pushing way past the apex and trying to fix it with brakes. This is all technique. Scrub speed and light brake into the apex only if you have to. You are using the gas/brake as an on/off switch. Probably boiling the fluid. The 1LE might be track focused, but its not a real race car...

This video alone you blew right past the breaking zone, then overturned and caused severe understeer while digging too hard into the brakes.

https://youtu.be/7aZ3yl-L7OA

I also respectfully disagree. Very few of us are professionals who can push right to the edge and stay there. Yes, there are mistakes in the videos, but none of that warrants fading.

Furthermore, fading, or vapor lock is a function of time, and doesn't simply appear. I have boiled the factory brake fluid in my BMW M2 at Hockenheimring. And I can tell you first hand that it was a very progressive affair over 2-3 laps. With the pedal getting progressively more spongy, and decel fading away towards the end of each brake zone.

He is pushing, and making mistakes, no doubt, but the brake system is more than capable to absorb it.

Here is a number of laps in 90F heat at Mid O where I pushed the boundaries of my SS 1LE with no issues.

Also not ideal brake points, or entry speed. But no problem at all.



and in case you start doubting my drivng credentials too, here is a sub 8 min Nurbergring Nordschleife lap in a stock N55 M2 with just pads and fluid.

Originally Posted by That1guy_tim

2000 CAD! couldn't you have bought a BOSCH MoSport ABS module for that price?

The ABS unit in all Camaros is also a Bosch unit. Very few have issues like this, and they were tuned by Bosch and GM engineers, so it makes me wonder if these is some sensor input causing this, and there are TONS of 1LE users in both SS and ZL1 versions having no issues.

[Christian1LE]

Originally Posted by SATINSTEEL1LE

When the fluid boils, it introduces a ton of bubbles. It doesnt boil away. So when it cools, the pressure goes back up and you have pedal again.

Yes, he didn't lose pedal pressure, the pedal didn't get spongy, therefore it was not air in the fluid.

[khcoaching]

After watching the other videos, for sure the car should have handled that with zero issue.

Ken

[GunMetalGrey]

I would definitely agree that the problem suddenly appeared out of nowhere with no warning, that’s for sure. I also think I would remember if the pedal went to the floor.

Thanks for the feedback and the confirmation guys, I appreciate it

[GunMetalGrey]

The GM dealership bled the brake fluid from the callipers today, they took pictures and showed / told me it looked great, just like new brake fluid, it also measured 0 % moisture at the calipers… this would seem to confirm that the issue is not boiling the brake fluid, thanks again to everybody for your time and your input, it is much appreciated!

[SCCAForums]

GunMetal, are you 'left foot braking'? I've seen/experienced when left foot braking, it can induce 'ice mode' more frequently.

Best regards,
Dave

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by SCCAForums

GunMetal, are you 'left foot braking'? I've seen/experienced when left foot braking, it can induce 'ice mode' more frequently.

Best regards,
Dave

Yeah you bet I am, I’m hoping I won’t have to change my driving style with the change in EBCM though. Did you change your EBCM?

[SCCAForums]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Yeah you bet I am, I’m hoping I won’t have to change my driving style with the change in EBCM though. Did you change your EBCM?

You’ll need to stop left foot braking. The only time I’ve experienced Ice mode is when I forget to move my left foot over to the dead leg pedal! These cars need a “little” bit of delay from full throttle to full brake, and unfortunately left foot braking typically doesn’t give it enough time to realize what’s going on, and so you get a hard pedal and Ice mode.

At your next event, try to only accelerate and brake with your right foot. I think you’ll find outstanding brakes all session long!

Best regards,
Dave

[Christian1LE]

I can left foot brake on my car but since it's a manual most of the time I'm right foot braking. Haven't had anything weird ever happen left for braking though.

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

.


Your '18 ZL1 is unfortunately one model year before the ABS system was revised to minimize the occurrence of ice-mode when using other than OEM tires, the fact you're running 3Rs which exceeds OEM tire grip and actually using that extra performance is likely the cause if it is indeed ice mode. You can get a '19+ EBCM from a car with the same options as yours, which will help, but might not completely eliminate the issue, or you can get a ZL1 1LE which doesn't have ice mode, afaik... Sounds like you need a 1LE!

So to confirm and clarify what you’re saying, even the new EBCM I ordered will not totally eliminate ice mode, it will just reduce it?

And we are sure and have verified that all the ZL1LE’s never get ice mode because it’s impossible for them to?

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by SCCAForums

You’ll need to stop left foot braking. The only time I’ve experienced Ice mode is when I forget to move my left foot over to the dead leg pedal! These cars need a “little” bit of delay from full throttle to full brake, and unfortunately left foot braking typically doesn’t give it enough time to realize what’s going on, and so you get a hard pedal and Ice mode.

At your next event, try to only accelerate and brake with your right foot. I think you’ll find outstanding brakes all session long!

Best regards,
Dave

This is true even after replacing the EBCM with a 2019 plus? Have you replaced your EBCM already and still had to stop left foot braking?


If so, I think I’ll add the delay between acceleration and braking you’re talking about but keep left foot braking so I can smooth out the corners where I transition between trail braking and maintenance throttle at the apex

[N Camarolina]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

This is true even after replacing the EBCM with a 2019 plus? Have you replaced your EBCM already and still had to stop left foot braking?


If so, I think I’ll add the delay between acceleration and braking you’re talking about but keep left foot braking so I can smooth out the corners where I transition between trail braking and maintenance throttle at the apex

If you add a pause between coming off the breaks and starting to apply the brake, then you are likely doing away with the benefit of left foot braking (seemless transition of weight transfer from back to front wheels). Instead now the car will tilt forward fast when you quickly come off the throttle, then start settle during the "pause" and start to tilt forward again as you apply the brake. An alternate approach might be roll off the throttle instead of abruptly lifting and go immediately to rolling onto the break.

I'd be curious to hear from those who have experienced and found work arounds for ICE mode. Is ICE mode more likely to be invoked by more violent weight transfer from back wheels to front (fast lift off throttle followed by fast depression of brake to threshold)? If so, would rolling off the throttle followed by rolling on brake to threshold be a better solution?

[d15b7]

Hey there. First, I’m relieved that you didn’t have a serious incident!

Second, you need to be very careful with left foot braking on track, especially with a forced induction vehicle. You can run it totally out of vacuum brake assist using aggressive left foot braking, and it will feel like you are pressing with all your might on the pedal and it’s barely stopping. I have a dedicated race car which is turbocharged and I have to be certain to wait about half a second between full throttle and full braking on one certain track entering one certain turn, or I’ll run it out of vacuum assist and can’t stop. It is possible (likely?) that by left foot braking it often that you’re inducing the issue. If I were you, I’d quit with the LFB.

Good luck out there

PS I hold racing licenses with SCCA, NASA, and VRG. I’m an Instructor for all the major groups. I’ve been doing on track stuff since 1994, and have lots of years of experience in many different cars.