[Raptor Jesus]

Originally Posted by sadpanda

Not THAT hard.... Flash manual trans tune to ECM and run 4l80 with standalone controller. Or go full aftermarket with Holley Dominator. It just seems like an awfully complex trans with a whole lot of unneeded gears to be trying to racecar

You can't flash a manual tune to a auto ECM. So plug in a manual TCU to a auto harness... won't work. Change the entire dash and chassis harness to work with the manual TCU.. then it won't communicate with the ECM. Change the ECM... there is no way to flash those to your VIN. So that idea is out. Go full aftermarket. Every dash function, climate control, a/c, VSA, ABS, radio, door locks, BCM for the windows, wipers, lights, electric P/S, everything that requires a ECM to function won't work. So basically you have a stripped out drag only car.

Now do you see why nobody is running other trans? It's not THAT easy like you think. Most people want to keep the functionality of the car which is why another trans is not an option yet.

[6thgenmike]

Originally Posted by Raptor Jesus

You can't flash a manual tune to a auto ECM. So plug in a manual TCU to a auto harness... won't work. Change the entire dash and chassis harness to work with the manual TCU.. then it won't communicate with the ECM. Change the ECM... there is no way to flash those to your VIN. So that idea is out. Go full aftermarket. Every dash function, climate control, a/c, VSA, ABS, radio, door locks, BCM for the windows, wipers, lights, electric P/S, everything that requires a ECM to function won't work. So basically you have a stripped out drag only car.

Now do you see why nobody is running other trans? It's not THAT easy like you think. Most people want to keep the functionality of the car which is why another trans is not an option yet.

Thank you, lol

[parish8]

I think I am going to unplug my trans and see what it does. I think the trans will go to 3rd and drive. I have my ignition over on my stand beside. It would be interesting to see what it does.

[cooper1965]

Originally Posted by Raptor Jesus

You can't flash a manual tune to a auto ECM. So plug in a manual TCU to a auto harness... won't work. Change the entire dash and chassis harness to work with the manual TCU.. then it won't communicate with the ECM. Change the ECM... there is no way to flash those to your VIN. So that idea is out. Go full aftermarket. Every dash function, climate control, a/c, VSA, ABS, radio, door locks, BCM for the windows, wipers, lights, electric P/S, everything that requires a ECM to function won't work. So basically you have a stripped out drag only car.

Now do you see why nobody is running other trans? It's not THAT easy like you think. Most people want to keep the functionality of the car which is why another trans is not an option yet.

Actually you can tell your automatic PCM that the trans type is manual. Once you do that, you really dont need to worry about all the other stuff as a manual car has no tcm anyway. Run a stand alone controller from there as Sadpanda suggested.

[Raptor Jesus]

Originally Posted by cooper1965

Actually you can tell your automatic PCM that the trans type is manual. Once you do that, you really dont need to worry about all the other stuff as a manual car has no tcm anyway. Run a stand alone controller from there as Sadpanda suggested.

The ECM will still need a speed input, reverse signal, and the other signals from the manual trans or the ECM won't rev past a certain rpm. Has anyone actually tried this or is it just theory because HP tuners has an option for it? Lots of people are saying this and that can be done, but I've yet to see it happen. Even the one person pushing a TH400 can't get it to cooperate with ECM yet. I'd figure if it was that easy it would have been done by now.

[RUQWIKR]

Either way, put a Kevlar trans blanket (Stroud, etc.) on it for safety. If you go with a 4L80/85 or whatever, you can put a JW Ultrabell up front for the bellhousing to keep shrapnel from coming up in the car.

[sadpanda]

Erm I've been wrong before but a quick google for 'hp tuners segment swap' seems to indicate otherwise. Basically grab the trans tuning from a same ECM family application and flash. kinda like side loading on android. Been a thing for a while. Or you can blank the entire TCM side and hide the resulting fault codes.


No one said the ENTIRE harness would work... Having to strip down/repin comes with the territory.



If you wanna get REALLY nitty gritty, you can use a tech2 to flash all of the other modules (BCM, gauge clusters etc) all you need is the VIN from a similar vehicle so you can find the right file on GM's website.



Getting VSS/other inputs from ANY transmission is trivial (hint, dakota digital) and the stand alone controllers have the outputs built in.

[Raptor Jesus]

Originally Posted by sadpanda

Erm I've been wrong before but a quick google for 'hp tuners segment swap' seems to indicate otherwise. Basically grab the trans tuning from a same ECM family application and flash. kinda like side loading on android. Been a thing for a while. Or you can blank the entire TCM side and hide the resulting fault codes.


No one said the ENTIRE harness would work... Having to strip down/repin comes with the territory.



If you wanna get REALLY nitty gritty, you can use a tech2 to flash all of the other modules (BCM, gauge clusters etc) all you need is the VIN from a similar vehicle so you can find the right file on GM's website.



Getting VSS/other inputs from ANY transmission is trivial (hint, dakota digital) and the stand alone controllers have the outputs built in.

A tech2 will not mis match flash. You're purely speculating based on functions that worked on older cars with HP. You're just grasping for straws because you're dead set on being able to do that when everyone with actual experience is saying it won't work.

[sadpanda]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

4l80 wouldn't be much if any cheaper to handle the power you are making. Your looking at 4600.00 for a 1000hp unit with no options or converter and 5400.00 for a 1500hp unit.

http://www.jakesperformance.com/4l80/

Just to play devils advocate here:


That is built by jakes... You can get a late core for $400 and jake's stage 5 rebuild kit and have a few grand left over for a converter.


The 4l80e served behind the dmax in truck/light duty commercial applications and was rated for 440lbs input and 885lbs output tq. They have been known to survive 800-1000hp with only a shift kit and converter.



The 8L90 is SUPPOSE to be good for 635 input but only 738 output tq. http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-transmissions/m5u/
and at a lower total vehicle weight AND it looks like there are some other considerations like maximum shift rpm etc.


What is the price difference between a built 4l80e that works and/or is guaranteed to handle 1500hp vs an A8 that explodes in the burn out box on its first outing?


Why try and hotrod a transmission that GM cant get right?

[sadpanda]

maybe you are right. Chicagotommy cross flashed an XTS cluster to work in an ATS with fairly good results

[sadpanda]

Like I said, I may be wrong... thats why I asked if it had been explored. However unless you can site where it has been tried and verified as impossible, you too are also grabbing at straws.

[sadpanda]

my understanding of crossflashing procedure is to bench flash module, overwrite vin then install and add to vehicle network.


But again, you could be right... none of that may work on the new locked ECM's even after an unlock by HPTuners.

[cooper1965]

Originally Posted by Raptor Jesus

The ECM will still need a speed input, reverse signal, and the other signals from the manual trans or the ECM won't rev past a certain rpm. Has anyone actually tried this or is it just theory because HP tuners has an option for it? Lots of people are saying this and that can be done, but I've yet to see it happen. Even the one person pushing a TH400 can't get it to cooperate with ECM yet. I'd figure if it was that easy it would have been done by now.

I have no clue if anyone has tried this or not, Im only speaking from experience on how these modules work. When you get a new BCM or PCM, you have to manually type in a VIN#, GDS will pull the info from the cloud, and program whatever VIN# you put in. Then you would simply match the PCM & BCM with the same VIN using GDS(not tech2). I mean this entire thread is ideals, not gospel if I wasn't mistaken. Little things like signal wires, and maybe buying a module or 2 should be of no real concern if your going to pull the trigger on a job like this.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by sadpanda

Just to play devils advocate here:


That is built by jakes... You can get a late core for $400 and jake's stage 5 rebuild kit and have a few grand left over for a converter.


The 4l80e served behind the dmax in truck/light duty commercial applications and was rated for 440lbs input and 885lbs output tq. They have been known to survive 800-1000hp with only a shift kit and converter.



The 8L90 is SUPPOSE to be good for 635 input but only 738 output tq. http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-transmissions/m5u/
and at a lower total vehicle weight AND it looks like there are some other considerations like maximum shift rpm etc.


What is the price difference between a built 4l80e that works and/or is guaranteed to handle 1500hp vs an A8 that explodes in the burn out box on its first outing?


Why try and hotrod a transmission that GM cant get right?

Not many can or will attempt to rebuild a transmission...so pretty much a moot point there.

I have only heard of 2 transmissions blowing up like that in the burnout box and it's when making a shift. It could be something tuning related due to the torque management system .

Nothing is guaranteed at that power level...even a 4l80.

What did GM get wrong with the A8? The converter shudder is not transmission related. It is related to the stock TCM tuning. Do you blame a tr6060 when a clutch fails?