[RUQWIKR]

Originally Posted by HD_ZLE

Holy smokes!!! Fast AF ... Can you please share a video of your session in a pm or something? Would love to see your lines. Cheers

Thanks! I can drive and turn a wrench decently, not so much with computers. I’m not on FaceChat or Snapbook, but a buddy who is saw some guys on FB saying no one with a SS 1LE runs low 2:30’s or below at COTA. He put a link to Carguy55’s (Mike) multiple 2:30.x’s. I was going to go this weekend and run new fat Hoosiers trying for a low to mid 25, but I can’t make it now. It was only the second time there, the first my third track day in 2017 with SCCA TNIA the one time they did it. You’ll see in the video I’m not shy over the curbs / turtles. The Hankook scrubs I got off a BMW buddy are narrow. Here’s one of his new ones vs. a 305 G3R. 315/325 or 315/345 is what R7 combo I run if I do. I’m going to work on linear actuators to trim out the wing on long straights as it hurts LT1 cars more than a LT4 obviously. When I post it, you’ll see I was in RACE PTM vs all off - I did that because of the water on track off line. While RACE doesn’t have yaw control, it was just a little anti-Armco insurance policy.

UPDATE: Deleting the video since the lap “police” below didn’t approve.

[Sumbata]

Track (which config if applicable) = Watkins Glen full
Elapsed Time (please include times to the hundredth if possible) = 2:01.64
Year / Model / Trim / Transmission = 2018 Camaro Zl1 1le
Date = 10/24/21
Tires = Pirelli p zero scrubs
Mods = exhaust, intake, roll bar and racing seat

[RSFR]

Originally Posted by RUQWIKR

Thanks! I can drive and turn a wrench decently, not so much with computers. I’m not on FaceChat or Snapbook, but a buddy who is saw some guys on FB saying no one with a SS 1LE runs low 2:30’s or below at COTA. He put a link to Carguy55’s (Mike) multiple 2:30.x’s. I was going to go this weekend and run new fat Hoosiers trying for a low to mid 25, but I can’t make it now. It was only the second time there, the first my third track day in 2017 with SCCA TNIA the one time they did it. You’ll see in the video I’m not shy over the curbs / turtles.

I was in that FB thread as well. I don't mean to be "that guy", but you went 4 wheels off track 5 times in that one lap, and totally cut out turn #4. I know it's just a HPDE and you're having a good time, and that's fine, but that's not a real lap time.

[RUQWIKR]

Originally Posted by RSFR

I was in that FB thread as well. I don't mean to be "that guy", but you went 4 wheels off track 5 times in that one lap, and totally cut out turn #4. I know it's just a HPDE and you're having a good time, and that's fine, but that's not a real lap time.

To each his own opinion. There were way over 50 in the run group with GT4, GS, TC, TA, NASCAR pro / semi-pro drivers all practicing for races the next weekend or so. They all were cutting as much of the track off that they could, too. Some of the DE providers even have the turtles removed in the esses.

The video “police” is exactly why I typically don’t post up lap videos nor participate in the social media games. I’d like to see a “clean” lap. I'll just go delete my video and time since I "exceeded track limits".

When I look at practice, qualifying, and race lap in-cars from various series, they sure seem to cut as much off the corners over curbing with similar lines, albeit, often with much quicker times than mine (NASCAR, GT4, GT3, etc. or much slower (Spec Miata, etc.). Before I check out of this discussion, NASCAR drivers were not exactly shy about aggressive lines in qualifying. Oh, wait, those weren't "real laps" either.

[cdrptrks]

Originally Posted by RSFR

I was in that FB thread as well. I don't mean to be "that guy", but you went 4 wheels off track 5 times in that one lap, and totally cut out turn #4. I know it's just a HPDE and you're having a good time, and that's fine, but that's not a real lap time.

He also had to enter turn 1 off line and brake early due to traffic but he doesn't get that lost lap time added back. He didn't get black flagged so I will assume he was following any track limits rules laid out by the organizer of that event and there are no track limits rules specified in this tread.

Maybe it would be good to put an asterisk or note on videos posted here where all 4 tires are off of the track (and curbing if present) in one or more places but IMO that doesn't warrant disqualifying or deleting those videos from this thread since they can still be helpful to others.

F1 only monitors track limits at a few corners at COTA and drivers still get to exceed them up to 4 times during the race before getting penalized. Also this extremely wide line in turn 19 was perfectly acceptable for the inaugural IndyCar race at COTA:

[TrackClub]

My 2 cents: too bad the vid has been deleted. Moreover, COTA seems to be one of those venues, where track limits vary based on the series/organizers. Often times, it is related to how exits are treated especially in key corners (white line vs curbs vs no limit). I know of no series that permits cutting apexes and effectively straightening out the esses (but i understand why an amateur lapping organizer could take turtles out). Also, as much as official series like F1 permit a certain number of track limits to be exceeded during a race, those lap times are not counted as official (same for qualy).
Bottom line: i like the suggestion above, such as recording the lap with a proviso for 4 wheels off, or whatever. Otherwise, this discussion may go forever, as various series seem to favor different rules. Maybe picking up SCCA, or NASA rules would make most sense? Just a shot in a dark here, nothing more. No matter what: keep enjoying our cars and having fun! As far as i know nobody pays anyone here big bucks for a lap record
Cheers!

[RSFR]

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

F1 only monitors track limits at a few corners at COTA and drivers still get to exceed them up to 4 times during the race before getting penalized.

Well, if we want to use F1 rules that'd be super easy. If a car exceeds track limits, that lap time is deleted. If a car exceeds track limits and gains a lasting advantage, they are penalized. If a car exceeds track limits 4 times, they are penalized (RUQWKIR went off 5 times).

Originally Posted by RUQWIKR

The video “police” is exactly why I typically don’t post up lap videos nor participate in the social media games. I’d like to see a “clean” lap. I'll just go delete my video and time since I "exceeded track limits".

He was pretty quick on the trigger to remove the video, and this comment makes me think he knew it wasn't a legit lap. I never said he should have to delete his vid or be "disqualified" or whatever, but a line has to be drawn somewhere, right? Conveniently, they've already drawn a bunch around CotA.

[carguy55]

As far as I know there are no rules for an official lap time other than what's stated on the first page and it doesn't say anything about track limits etc. If you want to add that as a rule then every video needs to be reviewed and posts without video proof need to be deleted. Not to mention posts that are on the board where the persons name shown wasn't even the driver. RUQWIKR time could be listed with a comment like: Track limits exceeded, but we need a definition of track limits because every organization has different rules about it.

[TrackClub]

While all posts re this recent discussion can make sense at some level, or another - let's be careful we do not manage to piss in our own soup and undo a fantastic piece of work started by Eric and now continued by Luan for the benefit of a community which numbers thousands of folks.

Moreover, I've driven at 9 venues and none of them offered any opportunity to "cut" or otherwise "improve" my laptimes without very serious consequences like possibly launching the car into air, breaking suspension and/or wheels, rolling, wrecking, etc. I suspect a vast majority of venue are like this. I suspect only a handful of venues in N America offer an issue of track limits.
Who knows, it may only be COTA due to a specific F1 design with large flat run outs.

I would hope like heck, that 100% of us would not offer a time where an unfair advantage was gained and made us look like a hero. And let's make no mistake, this was not really the case here, as a video was offered, commented on and retracted.
We can all err folks We are all long term members here, who have helped each other and many other members with variety of info and advice over the years. Let's keep our community together!!!

As far as COTA, or any other track that possibly "offers" track limit advantages, let's request a video, so folks can see what lines were taken and draw their own conclusion. Or, establish a standard based on a given series and ensure a vid is provided to uphold the claim. And who knows, this issue might be limited to COTA only? Happy to be corrected here. Cheers!

[driven2exceSS]

Track = NHMS (South Oval Config.)
Elapsed Time= 1:10.24
Camaro Model = 2016 SS (Convertible)
Date=10/10/21
Tires= Pirelli DH (18" 305/325)
Mods= Lowered, FE4 Sways, Brake cooling ducts, UDP, CAI, Ported 95 TB and MSD IM, E85, Headers, High Flow w/ secondary cat, crush pipe, and AFM valves deleted, some weight reduction, Track Alignment w/camber plates, SRF brake fluid, Hawk 70's...

1st Pic: New PB
2nd Pic: TT times (over driving the car trying for the clubs track record for my class) Needed a 1:09.710 or better... I would of had Watkin's Glen TR last month, had I not broken the strut. Next year!!
3rd Pic: Well there isn't one. I didn't, and don't, have the heart to take any 'Pics". My buddy crashed the car in the remaining open track session after the "official" time-trial. He's buying it. I don't want to deal with the damages.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by driven2exceSS

Track = NHMS (South Oval Config.)
Elapsed Time= 1:10.24
Camaro Model = 2016 SS (Convertible)
Date=10/10/21
Tires= Pirelli DH (18" 305/325)
Mods= Lowered, FE4 Sways, Brake cooling ducts, UDP, CAI, Ported 95 TB and MSD IM, E85, Headers, High Flow w/ secondary cat, crush pipe, and AFM valves deleted, some weight reduction, Track Alignment w/camber plates, SRF brake fluid, Hawk 70's...

1st Pic: New PB
2nd Pic: TT times (over driving the car trying for the clubs track record for my class)
3rd Pic: Well there isn't one. I didn't, and don't, have the heart to take any 'Pics". My buddy crashed the car in the remaining open track period after the "official" time-trial. He's buying it. I don't want to deal with the damages.

Are ya kidding?! Your buddy wrecked your car?!

[driven2exceSS]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Are ya kidding?! Your buddy wrecked your car?!

Yup. No joke. Sucks!

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by driven2exceSS

Yup. No joke. Sucks!

Oh man, so sorry to hear it. That must suck big time indeed. Hope there will be another ride for ya in a near future. Cheers!

[driven2exceSS]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Oh man, so sorry to hear it. That must suck big time indeed. Hope there will be another ride for ya in a near future. Cheers!

Thanks Bill. I hope so too! Maybe this will get me on the " fast track" to a ZLE or at least a 1LE