07-29-2020, 08:41 AM | #29 |
Drives: 23 LT1/22 Colorado TB/69 Chevelle Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Greenville, Tx
Posts: 4,970
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I don't know who wrote that article, but I know that I don't like them.
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07-29-2020, 08:47 AM | #30 |
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Drives: Fast if no one's looking Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 1,794
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No one in the market for a Camaro/Mustang/Challenger is even considering those cars, and vice versa. You don’t test drive a Civic SI and go “hmm I wonder how this compares to a Camaro”
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07-29-2020, 09:43 AM | #31 |
Drives: too many Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: oh va pa ma tx
Posts: 3,046
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Truth^
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07-29-2020, 10:05 AM | #32 | ||
Drives: 19 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE Shock Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 1,947
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Quote:
Having driven an RX-8 before, you can say those cars are fun(it is!), but just don't say they are fast stock. Quote:
Apples and oranges comparisons work if they are self-aware of the nature of the comparison. Throttle House made a video on a Mustang GT vs. Civic Type R comparison that was entertaining to watch, and Kia had an ad that compares the Forte to an Aventador that was also funny. This article clearly isn't, though. It's not just a "muscle car guy" problem. Go swap one of those cars out with a pony (e.g. " 10 cars We'd Take over the BRZ", and put Camaro in the list), I bet you will see similar reactions. Most of those are hot hatches and small roadsters. While I like those small roadsters, I wouldn't own one in North America given the number of pick-up trucks on the road and in my personal experience, 90% of them drive like they are compensating for something(company trucks are obviously exceptions). Nope, I don't want to be in a Miata/124 when one of those idiots change lane into me(which almost happened once when I had my RX-8). Sent from toaster or something
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Current:
2019 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE M6 Shock GM Performance Intake and that's it, because driver mods before car mods Past: 2009 Mazda RX-8 GT M6 Velocity Red Mica (Sold) 2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z51 2LT M7 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat (Flood totaled) |
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07-29-2020, 10:27 AM | #33 | |
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Drives: 2018 Camaro SS1 1LE Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,595
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Quote:
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/toyo...t-test-review/ 2018 Accord 2.0T has a 0-60 of 5.7. https://www.motortrend.com/cars/hond...rd-first-test/ |
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07-29-2020, 10:48 AM | #34 | |
Drives: 19 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE Shock Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 1,947
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Quote:
I actually priced out a Camaro 2LT 1LE w/2.0T in Canada to be the same price as a GT 86. That's kinda messed up. In the US, though, the Camaro 2LT 1LE w/2.0T will be like a grands or two more than the GT 86. The list would be a lot more convincing if it features something like lightly used C7 and some German performance cars(M4, Cayman, etc.). At least that's a cross-shopping combination I can see happen. I personally went through cross-shopping used C7 and a new SS 1LE. Got the rare chance of being able to have both, though I can't say I really like the circumstance of why that happened. RIP C7...
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Current:
2019 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE M6 Shock GM Performance Intake and that's it, because driver mods before car mods Past: 2009 Mazda RX-8 GT M6 Velocity Red Mica (Sold) 2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z51 2LT M7 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat (Flood totaled) |
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07-29-2020, 11:07 AM | #35 | |
Quote:
My impression of articles like that is that they are little more than click bait. The article is comparing traditional "muscle cars" to today's breed of cars. Many family cars nowadays can outperform the classic muscle cars that people pay six figures for at auctions (a few of which I have actually owned). People who would read that article and say "oh yes, sign me up!" for the most part probably would never have considered a Camaro in the first place. And vice-versa. I would not want any of them personally. They are not "bad", simply not what I was looking for. Just my opinion.
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Gen6 Camaro LT (my daily driver), Cruze ECO (grocery getter), Chevy SS Pickup (wife's daily driver), Honda Shadow, Honda CBX
Last edited by DIYguy; 07-29-2020 at 11:19 AM. |
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07-29-2020, 11:17 AM | #36 | |
Drives: 2017 Camaro 2.0T, 91 Miata Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
Posts: 505
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Quote:
I considered many of these cars as options before buying my car. There's a reason I picked the Camaro over them, but I'm also not going dismiss the others as garbage because I believe the Camaro to be the best option for what I wanted out of a car.
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07-29-2020, 11:38 AM | #37 | |
Drives: 19 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE Shock Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 1,947
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Quote:
And I seriously want to see someone who actually cross-shops a Camaro SS/Mustang GT with a Civic Type R. The look of Civic Type R alone turns me(and anyone who's reasonably mature) off massively. Fake vents and massive wing(yes I know it's functional) just scream rice. Personally, if I am shopping for a hot hatch like that, I would go with a Golf R since the look is a lot more subtle. And that's the car Civic Type R competes against, not a V8 pony car with a sports car chassis(hot hatches are ultimately still built on family car chassis). In a different situation, I would definitely consider some of them. If I live in Europe or Japan, an MX-5 would be much more attractive to me compared to a Camaro. Still, if someone is buying a 2.0T/V6 Camaro, I don't see many of them making it onto the cross-shopping list other than the 370Z and maybe an WRX, assuming they are okay with a Sedan. Any Sedan, to me, has 2 many doors.
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Current:
2019 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE M6 Shock GM Performance Intake and that's it, because driver mods before car mods Past: 2009 Mazda RX-8 GT M6 Velocity Red Mica (Sold) 2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z51 2LT M7 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat (Flood totaled) |
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07-29-2020, 11:57 AM | #38 | |
Drives: 2019 1ss 1le, blue wrap Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Maryland
Posts: 633
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Quote:
I think that's right.I briefly considered the Type R, but i was able to relax my rear seat requirement, the SS is a much better value. But this "muscle car" vs "sport car" isn't really a substantive conversation unless definitions are offered. |
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07-29-2020, 12:12 PM | #39 |
Drives: 2018 Camaro 1SS 1LE Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Front Range, CO
Posts: 1,878
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BRZ/86 is very fast at autox. I did consider it, but BRZ and Miata are too small, load capacity is really low. I also don't like the fact they are slower than many family sedans and crossover utes these days, this is pretty annoying that you can't pass/overtake easily in a sports car.
I don't consider fwd cars either, just don't like fwd. AWD can work well but Subaru WRX/STi are basically garbage. I had a few, my last car was a '16 STi and I got rid of it because it had too many issues. WRX's engine is a joke, worst of both worlds, it's detuned on the bottom end so it doesn't self-destruct AND it dies out at the top end. STi is laggy but has power to redline, as long as the motor doesn't grenade, and it probably will. Then Subaru may claim abuse and refuse warranty, even if bone stock.
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07-29-2020, 02:42 PM | #40 | |
Drives: 19 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE Shock Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 1,947
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Quote:
Sent from toaster or something
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Current:
2019 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE M6 Shock GM Performance Intake and that's it, because driver mods before car mods Past: 2009 Mazda RX-8 GT M6 Velocity Red Mica (Sold) 2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z51 2LT M7 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat (Flood totaled) |
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07-29-2020, 03:08 PM | #41 | |
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Quote:
And the difference between the FA series engines vs the EJ series is night and day in my opinion. I had a chance to get another WRX 2017 and test drove one. Did not like it plus takes too much time and money to get them to stock SS HP numbers. Just giving my opinion |
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07-29-2020, 03:44 PM | #42 |
Drives: 2016 Camaro 1LT Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: California
Posts: 3,491
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I think the sales number shows.. nobody cross-shops camaro with any of the other V6 and I4 type cars out there except Mustang's and Chargers (and..maybe challengers...but only masochists buy a v6 challenger).
The camaro is not dipping into that much...much larger market. The camaro (all trims)'s only real competition is mustang, charger, challenger, corvette, and maybe some bmw's at this point. But it's biggest competition is that the public doesn't need pony cars. They really dont want them. They dont like driving but if the're gonna have to, they are more than serviced by the performance from just about anything built these days. Chevy and ford and dodge could have dealt with this in a better way than basically staying the course and watching pony cars dive into extinction. They could have differentiated pony cars from "regular" cars by being driver centric beyond what's available in other cars for the demographics that buy pony cars. 1. make the cars easy to service diy. Stop making them harder to work on yourself and instead, make this model very easy to diy. Make the computer able to tell you easily without external devices what the problem is, able to be reset etc. make programming the engine for mods easy and user friendly while retaining emissions control checks so that users are less inclined to just disable them than figure out how to get everything operating as it should. 2. Make the infotainment system easy to interface with and modify. No proprietary nonsense and encrypted crap. You can still be extremely secure from hackers and thieves without resorting to that nonsense. 3. Sure, get rid of the manual trans, but make sure the replacement trans has instant shifting ability when under manual control. 4. Design the interior to be easily accessible and replaceable by third parties. Put the 3d cad designs up for companies to make their own replacement panels etc without having to do all of the legwork themselves. ..ideas like that. Basically, make pony cars the kind of car that is pro-consumer and diy... keep the rest the way they're going. That would create a customer base that goes beyond the dwindling high performance muscle car type. It would start dipping into the growing and much larger maker community that can appreciate the cars for what you're allowed to do with them and become fans that way. You're not going to lose the current fans who already like the cars. But you're not going to gain any by keeping the status quo. |
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