[VADER SS L99]

Originally Posted by ztwentypoop

It was not the chassis that gave the edge to the Gen5 1LE-equipped SS (specifically engineered for track day duty) over the 2015 GT with the performance pack option (engineered for superior street performance). Should it be a surprise that a car intended for track duty won out in a handling test over a car that was engineered for street performance?

If GM offers a 1LE option for the 6th Gen, then it's direct competition will be the 2016 GT350, not the GT with PP.

Again, to suggest that the Alpha platform is better than the S550 platform just because it is made by GM is ludicrous if you're approaching things from a purely objective viewpoint.

When the GT is lighter, more powerful, on a brand new improved platform and has much better brakes vs a car at the end of its life? Yeah, its completely surprising and embarrasing for Fords 50th Anniversary Mustang.

The 1LE is the only performance package that you can put on a SS so its a completely fair comparison. If anything the 1LE should have been at a major disadvantage. The 1LE never should have won that comparison and I didnt think it would. When I read it did I was majorly surprised and totally disapointed with Ford's EPIC FAIL. The Ford team knew what the 1LE could do and could have made damn sure its car out performed the out of date 1LE. Especially considering those brakes. The 1LE gets standard SS brakes. The GT PP gets 6 piston calipers with massive 15" rotors to the SS's 4 piston calipers and 14" rotors. I don't do any road course racing but I have been told brakes are just as important as tires.

A 1LE is NOT a direct competitor to a GT350 nor is ANY SS trim model. This is laughable. This actually did make me laugh out loud when I read it. The GT350 is a completely different model with a different engine and transmission. The 1LE is a performance package put onto the SS just like a performance package is put onto a GT. The 1LE is still a SS.

I also think anyone who says the Camaro Alpha platform is better than the S550 before the car has even been tested is jumping to conclusions. I think it WILL be. But that is just a prediction and not a bold statement like some other fan boy comments.

[hotlap]

Compittion between cars like the Boss 302 and 1LE or GT350R and Z/28 or GT500 and ZL1 is what makes the Chevy vs Ford rivalry so good. The next 4 years is going to be fun to watch and will likely result in the pinnacle for all model.

So... will the resurrection of the LS7 be Chevy's answer to the GT350(R)? It's a certainty that won't be available at launch.

[titanfan]

Okay, let's level set. We all are aware that the Gen5 1LE-equipped SS beat the 2015 GT w/ PP on the track in one magazine test. Epic fail for Ford.

Now, let's move on to a discussion about what vehicle will be going head-to-head in model year 2016. At this point, we do not have any indication that there will be a 1LE option for the SS, a ZL1 or a z/28. That means GM brings to the table in MY 2016:

1/2 LT 2.0L turbo four standard (3.6L V6, optional)
1/2 SS 6.2L V8 (MRC suspension optional)

Ford will have available:

Mustang Base 2.3L EcoBoost turbo 4 standard (3.7L V6, optional)
Mustang GT 5.0L V8 (Performance Pack optional)
GT350 5.2L V8 (Track and Tech Packages incl. MRC optional)
GT350R 5.2L V8 (Electronics Package optional, MRC standard)

So, what trims will the magazines put head-to-head?

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by ztwentypoop

Okay, let's level set. We all are aware that the Gen5 1LE-equipped SS beat the 2015 GT w/ PP on the track in one magazine test. Epic fail for Ford.

Now, let's move on to a discussion about what vehicle will be going head-to-head in model year 2016. At this point, we do not have any indication that there will be a 1LE option for the SS, a ZL1 or a z/28. That means GM brings to the table in MY 2016:

1/2 LT 2.0L turbo four standard (3.6L V6, optional)
1/2 SS 6.2L V8 (MRC suspension optional)

Ford will have available:

Mustang Base 2.3L EcoBoost turbo 4 standard (3.7L V6, optional)
Mustang GT 5.0L V8 (Performance Pack optional)
GT350 5.2L V8 (Track and Tech Packages incl. MRC optional)
GT350R 5.2L V8 (Electronics Package optional, MRC standard)

So, what trims will the magazines put head-to-head?

The mags will match a GT PP against a SS w/mag (1LE) and the GT350R against a gen5 Z/28.

JALOPNIK will test air bags on v6 models

[LesserO2Evils]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

JALOPNIK will test air bags on v6 models

[titanfan]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

The mags will match a GT PP against a SS w/mag (1LE) and the GT350R against a gen5 Z/28.

If that's the case, when the SS beats the GT and the GT350R beats the z/28, is it going to be a wash? I'd hazard to guess that the Ford guys would scream comparing a car with MRC versus one without it is an unfair comparison. Likewise, GM guys would counter than comparing a Zeta-based car versus a new S550 car is equally unfair.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by ztwentypoop

If that's the case, when the SS beats the GT and the GT350R beats the z/28, is it going to be a wash? I'd hazard to guess that the Ford guys would scream comparing a car with MRC versus one without it is an unfair comparison. Likewise, GM guys would counter than comparing a Zeta-based car versus a new S550 car is equally unfair.

Your really trying hard to defend the mustang.

First it's the gtpp wasn't supposed to be good on a track. Which sounds like a cop out.
Now the MRC which is an option just like the pp but it is unfair? A handling option offered from the factory that gm pioneered. Are you kidding me? Excuse after excuse...

What are you trying to say?

Ford only loses when they don't care? Very adult attitude my friend.

And no sneaking in a very limited run of 100 (gt350) cars for 2015 won't make it a wash. Extremely limited production. The people bragging about them won't even be able to buy one. Give me a break lol...

What really matters and what has always mattered most is ss vs gt. year to year model to model. The model most people will buy/ can afford. The real world cars that represent what the company has to offer to the average consumer. The halo models are important as well... Mostly cuz it's fun to read about lol. Most people won't buy a 60k plus camaro or mustang.

If you want to hang your hat on an extremely limited run 2015 gt350 to sleep better go ahead. What will really matter is how the alpha does. Ford is still trying to catch zeta. It's obvious to everyone but the fanboys.

[ilirg]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Your really trying hard to defend the mustang.

First it's the gtpp wasn't supposed to be good on a track. Which sounds like a cop out.
Now the MRC which is an option just like the pp but it is unfair? A handling option offered from the factory that gm pioneered. Are you kidding me? Excuse after excuse...

What are you trying to say?

Ford only loses when they don't care? Very adult attitude my friend.

And no sneaking in a very limited run of 100 (gt350) cars for 2015 won't make it a wash. Extremely limited production. The people bragging about them won't even be able to buy one. Give me a break lol...

What really matters and what has always mattered most is ss vs gt. year to year model to model. The model most people will buy/ can afford. The real world cars that represent what the company has to offer to the average consumer. The halo models are important as well... Mostly cuz it's fun to read about lol. Most people won't buy a 60k plus camaro or mustang.

If you want to hang your hat on an extremely limited run 2015 gt350 to sleep better go ahead. What will really matter is how the alpha does. Ford is still trying to catch zeta. It's obvious to everyone but the fanboys.

[KMPrenger]

I agree that most magazines will pit a pretty much loaded Mustang GT with PP against a pretty much loaded SS with MRC. In this case, I don't see HOW Chevrolet can lose, unless that MRC really is set up wrong and sucks on the 16 SS. I could see the SS weighing a bit more and costing more as well.

That said, what I'd also like to see, is a comparison of a non-MRC SS versus either a standard GT or a GTPP. I think the car is going to be a damn good handler regardless of having MRC or not...but MRC will allow it to go a few steps further (better comfort for cruising and more stiffness for track duty) Camaro will weigh less than with MRC, and cost less.

As for the lower trims, the comparisons should be as they are intended: Camaro T4 versus Mustang V6 and Camaro V6 versus Mustang Ecoboost.

[khell86]

Just to throw fuel on the fire, what about price range?

If the latest info is true, the Base GT350 starts at 47,000. I could see a fully loaded SS getting up there. So would it be fair for a fully loaded SS with its track package (1LE) to go against the GT350 which is Ford's track focused car?

We all know someone will do it. Ford has put Chevy in a tough spot with its pricing of the GT350.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by khell86

Just to throw fuel on the fire, what about price range?

If the latest info is true, the Base GT350 starts at 47,000. I could see a fully loaded SS getting up there. So would it be fair for a fully loaded SS with its track package (1LE) to go against the GT350 which is Ford's track focused car?

We all know someone will do it. Ford has put Chevy in a tough spot with its pricing of the GT350.

Looks like a fully loaded GT350 with tech and mag ride will run $57495. If a 2ss with mag runs $50000 or more, I can see people going to the GT350.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by khell86

Just to throw fuel on the fire, what about price range?

If the latest info is true, the Base GT350 starts at 47,000. I could see a fully loaded SS getting up there. So would it be fair for a fully loaded SS with its track package (1LE) to go against the GT350 which is Ford's track focused car?

We all know someone will do it. Ford has put Chevy in a tough spot with its pricing of the GT350.

How have they put Chevy in a tough spot?

First thing, you can option a Mustang GT to the same price range.
.
Secondly, the GT350 is not 47k. It starts at almost 48 without the GG tax or delivery fee. It's basically 50k. The GT with deliver is 33k and current Camaro is 34.5.. That's a 15k+ difference.

Once you option it out like a loaded GT or SS, it'll be 15-20k more.

[titanfan]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Your really trying hard to defend the mustang.

First it's the gtpp wasn't supposed to be good on a track. Which sounds like a cop out.
Now the MRC which is an option just like the pp but it is unfair? A handling option offered from the factory that gm pioneered. Are you kidding me? Excuse after excuse...

What are you trying to say?

Ford only loses when they don't care? Very adult attitude my friend.

And no sneaking in a very limited run of 100 (gt350) cars for 2015 won't make it a wash. Extremely limited production. The people bragging about them won't even be able to buy one. Give me a break lol...

What really matters and what has always mattered most is ss vs gt. year to year model to model. The model most people will buy/ can afford. The real world cars that represent what the company has to offer to the average consumer. The halo models are important as well... Mostly cuz it's fun to read about lol. Most people won't buy a 60k plus camaro or mustang.

If you want to hang your hat on an extremely limited run 2015 gt350 to sleep better go ahead. What will really matter is how the alpha does. Ford is still trying to catch zeta. It's obvious to everyone but the fanboys.

Not defending the Mustang any more or less than I am the Camaro. As someone who has owned various years/versions of both (and still do) one out-performing the other does not bother me in the slightest.

I never said the GT PP was not good on the track, I just said it was not specifically engineered for that venue as the 1LE package was. I think the results illustrate that.

MRC was NOT pioneered by GM. Check your facts.

I agree with your points regarding affordability. However, while the 2015 MY GT350/GT350R are very limited in number, that is not the case with the 2016 MY, which is what I was referencing.

Again, if having stock performance bragging rights is important to you, by all means, buy the car that gives you that. But here we are, many posts later, and nobody is addressing the question of why some perceive the Alpha as a better chassis than the one that underpins the Mustang. It's just the same old, tired Camaro versus Mustang talking points.

[NASTY99Z28]

Originally Posted by ztwentypoop

Not defending the Mustang any more or less than I am the Camaro. As someone who has owned various years/versions of both (and still do) one out-performing the other does not bother me in the slightest.

I never said the GT PP was not good on the track, I just said it was not specifically engineered for that venue as the 1LE package was. I think the results illustrate that.

MRC was NOT pioneered by GM. Check your facts.

I agree with your points regarding affordability. However, while the 2015 MY GT350/GT350R are very limited in number, that is not the case with the 2016 MY, which is what I was referencing.

Again, if having stock performance bragging rights is important to you, by all means, but the car that gives you that. But here we are, many posts later, and nobody is addressing the question of why some perceive the Alpha as a better chassis than the one that underpins the Mustang. It's just the same old, tired Camaro versus Mustang talking points.

Wrong again. Gm created Delphi which created mrc.