[Cito]

Returned from another unsuccessful trip to Lincoln on Friday. Not really a surprise, but I am very frustrated with the 1LE and am hoping folks might have some ideas about what I experienced. My concerns are in no way an excuse for my performance at nationals, because it is about where it has always been, but I have a hard time not feeling as though I didn't have a fair shot at finishing higher up in the range of mediocrity where I live.



Car is a 2017 1LE with 15k miles. Has about 13 autocross events, with 8 this year. Running 285/19 and 305/19 RE-71r's.



West course run 1, got the car into a little bit (really very slight) of a tank slapper, and car goes into a "limp mode" keeping it from going any faster than 40 mph the remainder of the course. In the past, I thought fuel starvation might play a role in this, but the car had 3/4 tank in it. My car has done this before on one occasion with greater than a 1/2 tank in it with a similar but more pronounced tank slapper situation. Talk to the GM guys parked right next to me, and they have no clue what might have caused it and said it was not something they have experienced. The GM guys were very nice, and cool about me asking during competition. So, no complaints with them.



West course run 2, car goes into ice mode twice, but the run ends up being my fastest of the day.



West course run 3, the car does fine, but the run is impacted by feeling that I need to hold back a bit to allow for "a smooth transition from accelerator to brake" so as to avoid ice mode.



East course, run 1, the car goes into full on ice mode and I drive right through the wall of cones outside of the first left hand turn. DNF.



East course, run 2, remind myself to be smooth with the brake inputs, but still get a bit of ice mode in 3 corners.



East course, run 3, ran very conservatively, and still ran into an issue with brake feel. The brakes had a bit of a hard pedal, gravelly or marbly feeling. Some corners felt like ice mode, but others the car just felt terrible under braking.



I have had ice mode with this car throughout the summer, but it seems to be a worsening condition. I need to pull the wheels off and fully inspect the brakes. Doing this previously has not revealed any obvious concerns. Several of my friends think that there is air in the brake system. I am going to inspect the pads as well. Wondering if anyone else has had similar experiences or ideas that might be of help.


Any thoughts on the brake and "limp mode" issues would be appreciated. Hate to move to my civic Si as my primary autocross car because of these issues.

[JRL1LE]

2017 SS 1LE, on 295/30/20 square RE71R's, very seldom have had ice mode, never seen limp mode. About 45 autox events.

[Rexracer]

I have been looking at the Camaros and 1LE's for Autocross/track/fun car. Ryan Otis who used a Gen6 Camaro to win a National title said to only look at 2018/19 cars (this is early this year so no 2020s), as the 19s had competition setting that stopped the Ice mode, and the 18s could be updated to have it as well. 2017 cars and before could not be updated. He got rid of his Camaro as the ice mode was to frustrating to deal with. This isnt my experience, and I haven't verified anything he said, just what I remember him saying.

[JRL1LE]

Originally Posted by Rexracer

I have been looking at the Camaros and 1LE's for Autocross/track/fun car. Ryan Otis who used a Gen6 Camaro to win a National title said to only look at 2018/19 cars (this is early this year so no 2020s), as the 19s had competition setting that stopped the Ice mode, and the 18s could be updated to have it as well. 2017 cars and before could not be updated. He got rid of his Camaro as the ice mode was to frustrating to deal with. This isnt my experience, and I haven't verified anything he said, just what I remember him saying.

Otis had an SS, non 1LE, 2017 SS1LE had ABS calibrated for stickier Goodyears, regular SS did not, so they get lots of ice mode. 2018-2019 ABS calibration was improved even more to combat ice mode, but I seldom get it on my 2017 SS 1LE.

[jwisjw]

I've had hard pedal on all my runs, some better than others but affecting the run to some extent. However, my last west course run which I was .017 from the lead, "beyond hard pedal" struck hard. I felt really bad because the leader came up congratulating on the close battle but I was livid with what happened on course. I don't think people competitors will ever understand unless they are in a Camaro to what we have to tip toe through under braking zones, hard or soft.



Though I'm really surprised to hear the hard pedal with the SS 1LE...



Beyond Hard Pedal

[rotis]

The 2019+ has the improved calibration. The ZL1 1LE doesn't really get hard pedal to any significant extent, those brakes are amazing. I tried to upset it, and the worst I got was about 200ms of hard pedal, which almost immediately went away. It wasn't the 750ms of hard pedal that frequently afflicted my Camaro SS.

It is possible to retrofit the 2019+ EBCM onto a 2017 or 2018, mine was a 2016, so it had no chance.

I am seriously considering a 2020 SS 1LE, in hopes that the brakes will work more like a ZL1 1LE and less like a 2016 SS.

I don't have any insight into the limp mode stuff, that sounds crappy. Do you have video of your "Ice Mode" happening?

[Scargoes]

What is this update that can be done to the 2018? Software or is it hardware?

I've had ice mode once earlier this year at an autocross but never since. I let Tom Berry drive my car and he got ice mode bad. But I looked at the pdr data and he was at 50% throttle and 38% brakes at the same time. He obviously left foot brakes, I do not left foot brake.

jwisjw- if you ever come back out to a practice, I'd like to ride with you a lap or two. maybe you could help me pick up some speed

[Vtor_ZL1]

Stock pads or aftermarket ?



Could be symptom of too much (aggressive) rear pad - try something harder, like ceramic that has softer initial bite, lower overall CoF.


If you can't change bits, change the end effectors - ie brake pads.


Happens in all drive modes ?

[Cito]

Originally Posted by jwisjw

I've had hard pedal on all my runs, some better than others but affecting the run to some extent. However, my last west course run which I was .017 from the lead, "beyond hard pedal" struck hard. I felt really bad because the leader came up congratulating on the close battle but I was livid with what happened on course. I don't think people competitors will ever understand unless they are in a Camaro to what we have to tip toe through under braking zones, hard or soft.



Though I'm really surprised to hear the hard pedal with the SS 1LE...



Beyond Hard Pedal

Thank you all for the comments.



My brakes are completely stock.



I have 4 possible braking experiences. First experience is excellent braking as one would expect. The second, which is least frequent, is full on ice mode go through the wall of cones. The third is hard pedal (there's a brick under the pedal and I can't get it to the floor) without a true "almost no brakes" feeling you get with what I would call ice mode, and the fourth is a crunchy, marbly the brakes suck feeling--a Nationals exclusive experience. This happened even as I slowed down after the finish on the east course. But, then the brakes are back to normal as I drive it back to paddock.



My driving style is notoriously bad on-off throttle brake of the sort that is known to engage ice mode. My driving style has been this way for 20 years, and the interference at nationals was worse than any other event over the 2 seasons I have had the car.



I could change the module, but not legally (I don't think) for class. Are there other work arounds? Would going 305 square help? Would it help to change the brake fluid to a higher temp level? Do pads make a difference? Would OPR covered front tires after the first ice mode event contribute to this?



I will try to post a video.



Thanks again, I appreciate everyone taking the time to comment.

[JRL1LE]

Are u running 285/35/19 front/305/30/19 rear tires?, maybe the taller front tire is causing an issue, just a thought.

[ICTsccaCamaro]

I battled ICE mode in my 2012 and my 2014 but have never had it happen once on my 2018 ZL1 1LE. Time for an upgrade?

[Cito]

Originally Posted by JRL1LE

Are u running 285/35/19 front/305/30/19 rear tires?, maybe the taller front tire is causing an issue, just a thought.

Yes, and that is a possibility. Need to try 305 square.

[FNxR3DNECK]

Originally Posted by Cito

Yes, and that is a possibility. Need to try 305 square.

So I run 305 square REs with Hawk HP+ pads, I never experienced Ice Mode on stock pads but I also think I simply wasn't pushing the car as hard before I switched pads. With that said I've only gotten Ice-mode in a few very specific situations: In really bumpy sections on our regular lot and on another lot that was repaved over the winter and is now notoriously slippery. We had an event there on Saturday and I was fighting Ice-mode all day due to a HARD/downhill braking zone, I was able to manage it for most of the runs until my "Send It" run where I pushed a tad too hard and it ruined that run haha

My experience: bad bumps and slick spots induce Ice Mode for me.

[MatthewAMEL]

Originally Posted by FNxR3DNECK

So I run 305 square REs with Hawk HP+ pads, I never experienced Ice Mode on stock pads but I also think I simply wasn't pushing the car as hard before I switched pads. With that said I've only gotten Ice-mode in a few very specific situations: In really bumpy sections on our regular lot and on another lot that was repaved over the winter and is now notoriously slippery. We had an event there on Saturday and I was fighting Ice-mode all day due to a HARD/downhill braking zone, I was able to manage it for most of the runs until my "Send It" run where I pushed a tad too hard and it ruined that run haha

My experience: bad bumps and slick spots induce Ice Mode for me.

By any chance do you run in the same region as Danny Kao?


He ran a CAM-C 2016 Camaro SS and he would often complain about 'ice mode'. I honestly never thought it was a thing until I watched it do it to him at ProSolo a couple of years ago.


I've never experienced it in my 1LE. I have used OEM, Hawk DTC-30 and DTC-60s with OEM and 305/RE71s.