[Devstrike]

Originally Posted by sicpuppy

I've had a hellcat( I didn't track it) 2 mustang gts a 1ss and a 2 ss in the last 6 years. The hellcat was the most fun and sounded great. The gts just don't sound the same as the older pushrod 5.0 v8. Mustang owners think a loud car is a fast car, NOT! I liked both of the ss cars and I'm in the market for one now if I can find a dealer that not wanting to rape me on the deal.

Which is exactly why I would rather spend money on keeping my ICE performance vehicles alive than by an EV one. I am also considering buying the last year of the 6th gen.

[Fak_Ork]

I had been planning on ordering a 1SS but I've been taking a long look at the Model 3 performance lately. Love the acceleration and the fact that it's livable and outwardly visible, kind of similar to the CT-4 but faster and, until the recent price bumps, cheaper. Battery life is guaranteed to 70 percent at 8 years, from what I've seen most drivers that use some care and smart charging techniques- think a drain in the 20-25 percent average range- will do much better than that.

Of course, Tesla's obnoxious lack of controls and instruments, increasingly weird approach to media relations and their sometime-tool of a leader are factors that make me reluctant to invest.

Now I'm thinking that sticker price on the 1SS is a better deal than ever. Would be very interested in a Model 3 performance fighting EV from GM but they've got nothing but promises right now.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Fak_Ork

I had been planning on ordering a 1SS but I've been taking a long look at the Model 3 performance lately. Love the acceleration and the fact that it's livable and outwardly visible, kind of similar to the CT-4 but faster and, until the recent price bumps, cheaper. Battery life is guaranteed to 70 percent at 8 years, from what I've seen most drivers that use some care and smart charging techniques- think a drain in the 20-25 percent average range- will do much better than that.

Of course, Tesla's obnoxious lack of controls and instruments, increasingly weird approach to media relations and their sometime-tool of a leader are factors that make me reluctant to invest.

Now I'm thinking that sticker price on the 1SS is a better deal than ever. Would be very interested in a Model 3 performance fighting EV from GM but they've got nothing but promises right now.

I own both. The M3P is quick from a dig up until about 60mph, after that torque falls off fast. Like you mentioned the interior is boring, seats don't hold you in place, no HUD, no gauges, etc. It has open diffs with lots of software nanny control that you can't really disable. No drive modes, no magnetic ride suspension. All the money went into the powertrain and battery. The rest of the car is pretty basic.

The other thing that folks don't realize at first is how much power you lose as your state of charge drops. The performance numbers you see are when the car is at 85% charged or higher, which is only for a brief period because you are only supposed to charge to 90% max unless taking a trip. As your SoC drops you will lose power. If memory serves, the difference in power between 90% charge and 60% charge was over 50hp and .5 sec in times. Once you get down to 30% you take an even bigger hit.

The Model 3 makes for a great daily driver and it is cool in many ways but it doesn't scratch the itch the same way so I went a picked up a 2021 ZL1 before they stop making them. There is a charm to the Camaro, the high belt-line, exhaust note, aggressive styling, supercharger whine, the way it rips through the shifts and just pulls and pulls. The Camaro handling is also much sharper. The Camaro feels special, the Tesla can't do that for me. It has more of an appliance type feel and you just know that the whole industry is headed in this direction leaving fewer and fewer enthusiast cars available.

Maybe GM will find a way to make a desirable performance EV. GM will need to find ways to make the car exciting for enthusiasts. When you lose the sound, lack of driving engagement without a manual or at least some paddles, it gets boring pretty quick.

[ZL1plumbin]

Well… I suggest anyone wanting a muscle/sports car with ice (get it lol)

Should buy one within next 1-2yrs. GM and dodge bowing out hard.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/dodg...ming-soon/amp/

[Puddin]

Originally Posted by ZL1plumbin

Well… I suggest anyone wanting a muscle/sports car with ice (get it lol)

Should buy one within next 1-2yrs. GM and dodge bowing out hard.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/dodg...ming-soon/amp/

Yep and they are saying that 2023 is going to be the last year for all Hellcat models.

[Devstrike]

Ford is probably salivating right now as they aim to suck up a good portion of the ICE crowd that GM is dropping and Dodge looks like it will drop.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

Ford is probably salivating right now as they aim to suck up a good portion of the ICE crowd that GM is dropping and Dodge looks like it will drop.

I thought I read Ford is building more Mustang Mach-Es now than ICE based Mustangs.

[Devstrike]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I thought I read Ford is building more Mustang Mach-Es now than ICE based Mustangs.

They still have the V8 option though and soon they will capitalize on the being the only one with a V8. That will lead to more sales. In a Detroit news article talking about Ford sales numbers it has the Mustang Mach E sales in the SUV category with the Bronco. I personally think comparing the Mach E to a Performance Coupe Mustang is apples to oranges despite sharing the nameplate. That is my personal opinion anyway. If it was a coupe I would treat it apples to apples. EDIT: Also in the US Pickup trucks and then SUVs are very popular segment. Fords website only has the Mustang coupe as a car as well where the Mustang Mach E is under SUVs and Crossovers.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

They still have the V8 option though and soon they will capitalize on the being the only one with a V8. That will lead to more sales. In a Detroit news article talking about Ford sales numbers it has the Mustang Mach E sales in the SUV category with the Bronco. I personally think comparing the Mach E to a Performance Coupe Mustang is apples to oranges despite sharing the nameplate. That is my personal opinion anyway. If it was a coupe I would treat it apples to apples. EDIT: Also in the US Pickup trucks and then SUVs are very popular segment. Fords website only has the Mustang coupe as a car as well where the Mustang Mach E is under SUVs and Crossovers.

Yeah, it is pretty sad to witness the V8 slowly die. Cars are about to get even more boring. EVs are great daily drivers but they lack character. They are just not exciting to drive. Maybe GM and Dodge can find a way but if the only trick is instant torque and all EVs can do that including EV minivans...

[crysalis_01]

I'm genuinely curious as to what is going to happen to the performance aftermarket for new cars after 2030/2031 when Mustang also loses it's ICE. I imagine weight reduction will become even more important. Upgraded motors, more in depth suspension tuning, perhaps.

[Chrome383Z]

I plan on buying a 2650 Maggie pretty soon. As the market dries up for ICE engines so will the aftermarket.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

I'm genuinely curious as to what is going to happen to the performance aftermarket for new cars after 2030/2031 when Mustang also loses it's ICE. I imagine weight reduction will become even more important. Upgraded motors, more in depth suspension tuning, perhaps.

Same here. Tesla has some aftermarket support. Mostly suspension, brakes and recently created an a true aftermarket LSD but the powertrain is all locked down and everything is proprietary so you can’t upgrade drive units, inverters, etc. and you can only buy parts direct from Tesla. The cost for a battery replacement with labor on a Model 3 is like $12-15k, so no one wants to mess with the system and void the 8 year warranty.

I am curious how manufacturers will cater to the enthusiasts because EVs are very simple by design. There really isn’t anything to modify. I figure it will mostly be cosmetic and we will probably spend our time downloading different exhaust soundtracks to play through the stereo as we drive around.

[arpad_m]

I think and hope that the aftermarket will shrink, but not shrivel. Many young people still are or just becoming interested in the internal combustion engine to come alongside those of us who grew up with it.

Also, there are advantages whenever a platform or a product leaves the mainstream, because it leaves the idiots that fueled or just necessitated many an annoyance behind, too.

[Devstrike]

I think it would take a couple decades for the aftermarket to fully shrink too many die hard ICE guys, restorers, LS swap crowd and people like Westen Champlin that buy wrecked cars and modify them heavily will keep it alive. That and there are people that modify pickup trucks and those vehicles are going to have ICE for the foreseeable future.