[95 imp]

Originally Posted by zxspeedspec

You don't need modern chips when your entire platform is running off of the same chip that powered the 2004 Motorola Razr

If you're selling cars, who cares?

I have been reading the "Complete Book of Chevrolet Camaro" and just made it to the 3rd gen.

In the first chapter, it was talking about the factory supporting enthusiasts. Dodge is doing a great job of that. (The "brotherhood of muscle", "power dollars", crazy cool advertising that makes you feel you NEED their car, etc.)

gm (not GM) is totally allowing Camaro to wither on the vine by milking the name and not really putting effort into it. And sales show it.

[rocket403]

GM or gm has abandoned the Camaro leaving it to play out it's final act, the companies are moving on. The powers at be have EV on their minds and nothing will change it, not that it will be much better in the long run (everything has an impact when you are talking these numbers).
gm could have decided to go out with a bang, but are going out in a whimper, unlike Dodge who is riding the wave to the end, with their new options updated trim, colours have kept interest in their products even besting the Mustang.

I'm not planning on ever getting an EV but never is a long time, I don't see this EV move as the best plan (Hybrid might be a better idea with a gas engine that could charge a battery) but this is the way it is going.
I will miss these cars as when growing up in the 70's Muscle Cars were a culture and in the 80's when I started driving my older friend had a 80 Z28 that I would race with my 79 Cutlass. We all thought we had missed the great car years of the 60's early 70's. Yet here we are talking about the last 3 Muscle Cars (maybe 1 Muscle car & 2 sporty Muscle Cars).
In the future will we be talking about the sporty fast EV's in the same way? will we be talking about how good they are on the track?
Enjoy these last years is all I can think to say last person turn off the lights LOL

[cowpunk]

The Challenger has cupholders in the doors...that's next level boys!!!

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

If you're selling cars, who cares?

I have been reading the "Complete Book of Chevrolet Camaro" and just made it to the 3rd gen.

In the first chapter, it was talking about the factory supporting enthusiasts. Dodge is doing a great job of that. (The "brotherhood of muscle", "power dollars", crazy cool advertising that makes you feel you NEED their car, etc.)

gm (not GM) is totally allowing Camaro to wither on the vine by milking the name and not really putting effort into it. And sales show it.

gm does a bad job with branding in general. They develop a lot of very cool and capable cars/truck and then ignore them. Ford and Dodge put effort into branding and it shows.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by cowpunk

The Challenger has cupholders in the doors...that's next level boys!!!

what was I thinking, buying a Camaro with no door cupholders??? Let me trade for a Hellcat, quick

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

what was I thinking, buying a Camaro with no door cupholders??? Let me trade for a Hellcat, quick

And sunroofs that do not act as down force

[Malbjey]

The Challenger is better as a usable coupe. If you could only have one car, it is far more practical than the Camaro. Most of you are privileged enough to have the Camaro as a toy/second car. You don't even daily drive your Camaros. If you can't afford (or don't have the space for) an extra car, then the Challenger makes a lot more sense than a Camaro.

The Challenger's trunk isn't compromised with a tiny opening. The Challenger has better backseat space. The Challenger is still fast enough in a straight line, which is what a lot of people care about when shopping pony cars. The Challenger has better visibility. The Challenger has historically had better financing incentives and discounts.

Also, up until the LT1 trim, the V8 Camaro was the most expensive pony car. The Scat Packs were realistically selling for thousands less than the SS.

It's no surprise the Camaro has sold less.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by hotlap

gm does a bad job with branding in general. They develop a lot of very cool and capable cars/truck and then ignore them. Ford and Dodge put effort into branding and it shows.

Yep and its a shame. For as much as Ford's tinkering in the parts bin for special models(or fixing previous issues) and Dodge doing the same it at least generates some excitement more than sticker packages sure seems to work at least.

[Number 3]

Have to remind everyone that thinks Dodge is such a marketing juggernaut, Dodge sold 215,000 cars, SUVs and Minivans last year, down significantly from the year before.

Just because you like the "American Muscle" commercials from a foreign company for cars made in Canada, it isn't resulting in strong brand sales. (The same foreign company that slaps an American flag on the door of their new SUV and uses a commercial to tell us why. Maybe no one else cares) The only thing Dodge has is a short team sales leadership position in a dying segment of coupes/performance coupes.

Without a strong transition to EVs, Dodge (and Chrysler that sold 1/2 of Dodge last year with 2 products) as a brand is pretty much dead regardless of all that awesome advertising (which is only a portion of marketing) they do.

And to be clear, I like their commercials. I'm just not able to get past the fact that it's not an American company and the car isn't made in America. But I get that I'm also int the minority in this opinion.

[FarmerFran]

Isn't Canada "American" 😬


And the Wagoneer is made in MI. The engine in Mexico, still American😬

[LT1ornothing]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Have to remind everyone that thinks Dodge is such a marketing juggernaut, Dodge sold 215,000 cars, SUVs and Minivans last year, down significantly from the year before.

Just because you like the "American Muscle" commercials from a foreign company for cars made in Canada, it isn't resulting in strong brand sales. (The same foreign company that slaps an American flag on the door of their new SUV and uses a commercial to tell us why. Maybe no one else cares) The only thing Dodge has is a short team sales leadership position in a dying segment of coupes/performance coupes.

Without a strong transition to EVs, Dodge (and Chrysler that sold 1/2 of Dodge last year with 2 products) as a brand is pretty much dead regardless of all that awesome advertising (which is only a portion of marketing) they do.

And to be clear, I like their commercials. I'm just not able to get past the fact that it's not an American company and the car isn't made in America. But I get that I'm also int the minority in this opinion.

Pretty much the same thing with the 4th gen Fbodys. Most of us had one, and that was a real Canadian car sporting French shocks from the factory and all.

[Speak99]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Have to remind everyone that thinks Dodge is such a marketing juggernaut, Dodge sold 215,000 cars, SUVs and Minivans last year, down significantly from the year before.

Just because you like the "American Muscle" commercials from a foreign company for cars made in Canada, it isn't resulting in strong brand sales. (The same foreign company that slaps an American flag on the door of their new SUV and uses a commercial to tell us why. Maybe no one else cares) The only thing Dodge has is a short team sales leadership position in a dying segment of coupes/performance coupes.

Without a strong transition to EVs, Dodge (and Chrysler that sold 1/2 of Dodge last year with 2 products) as a brand is pretty much dead regardless of all that awesome advertising (which is only a portion of marketing) they do.

And to be clear, I like their commercials. I'm just not able to get past the fact that it's not an American company and the car isn't made in America. But I get that I'm also int the minority in this opinion.

You make a good point that there isnt much that is American in this vehicle including where it is made. Doesn't that prove the point that the marketing is sheer genius. Just like all those commercials targeting teens stating that you need to buy their product to be unique, and then poof, everyone is wearing it.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Have to remind everyone that thinks Dodge is such a marketing juggernaut, Dodge sold 215,000 cars, SUVs and Minivans last year, down significantly from the year before.

Just because you like the "American Muscle" commercials from a foreign company for cars made in Canada, it isn't resulting in strong brand sales. (The same foreign company that slaps an American flag on the door of their new SUV and uses a commercial to tell us why. Maybe no one else cares) The only thing Dodge has is a short team sales leadership position in a dying segment of coupes/performance coupes.

Without a strong transition to EVs, Dodge (and Chrysler that sold 1/2 of Dodge last year with 2 products) as a brand is pretty much dead regardless of all that awesome advertising (which is only a portion of marketing) they do.

And to be clear, I like their commercials. I'm just not able to get past the fact that it's not an American company and the car isn't made in America. But I get that I'm also int the minority in this opinion.

From a branding standpoint. Who did a better job?

SS or GT or Challenger
SS-1LE or Shelby GT350
ZL1 or Hellcat or Shelby GT500
Blazer or Bronco
Hummer or F-150 Lightning
Chevrolet Montana or Ford Maverick
Cadillac CT5 or BMW 5-Series

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by zxspeedspec

The supercharger is a relatively cheap fix. For less than $10k you can swap over to a Maggie 2650R. To fix the Charger/Challenger? How much does it cost to strip that car down to the chassis, acid dip the chassis to reduce the weight, realize it's pointless, and then ask McLaren to build you a bespoke carbon fiber tub chassis instead? Then after all that you still need to source $4k worth of suspension, $5k worth of lighter wheels, and put the shitbox back together.



I'd rather be known for driving into crowds than only capable of going in a straight line in a 20 year old MB.

That may be true, but I am just saying that the Charger/Challenger isn't as bad as you think. As others said, there is also the practicality advantage, especially with the Charger.

And as Farmer Fram kind of was trying to say, not everyone is a track hero. Even if the handling is bad, it's not like you will be pushing it on the street, and again, some buyers realize that and still like the car.