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Old 03-07-2022, 02:06 PM   #1
sandiegocamaro
 
Drives: 2017 Camaro 2SS Convertible
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Question Hola

Hola

Last edited by sandiegocamaro; 05-24-2022 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 03-07-2022, 02:13 PM   #2
arpad_m


 
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You don't want to keep driving with the shudder.

The friction material on torque converter clutches starts eroding as the quality of the (unfortunately hygroscopic) original fluid degrades over time. Once this process starts, it naturally accelerates itself until the torque converter becomes unusable and needs to be replaced, and that job will not cost a mere $525.

Get the flush done (based on GM TSB 18-NA-355) as soon as possible, warranty or not. From your description it seems you may still be able to save the torque converter.
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Old 03-07-2022, 03:18 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandiegocamaro View Post
I just bought a 2017 2SS Convertible with the A8 transmission in 02/2022 with only 34k miles. My last Camaro was a 2018 2SS M6. It took me a bit to notice, but I have the A8 shudder on the highway at steady speeds (usually when going slightly up hill) while in 8th gear. So far it doesn’t seem to be terribly bad, and it seems to only occur after I’ve been driving 15+ miles through the day (almost never notice it on the highway first thing in the morning). I initially thought this was due to AFM. I installed the AFM Range device, however I still have the shudder (maybe the shudder is a little less worse in V8 mode)? I just got a quote for the triple flush with new blue label Mobil 1 trans fluid, $525. I am just out of the 5 year warranty since my 2017 was manufactured in late 2016. My question is this: has anyone kept driving their A8 with the shudder? It seems like GM isn’t so worried about it since there is no recall? I drive about 10k miles per year and only keep a car for 1.5-2 years. I’ve read in other forums that performing the trans flush may only be a temporary fix and in some cases it can make it worse. I’m at a loss for what to do. Has anyone had any luck with an extended warranty covering this after GM powertrain warranty has expired? Thank you in advance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arpad_m View Post
You don't want to keep driving with the shudder.

The friction material on torque converter clutches starts eroding as the quality of the (unfortunately hygroscopic) original fluid degrades over time. Once this process starts, it naturally accelerates itself until the torque converter becomes unusable and needs to be replaced, and that job will not cost a mere $525.

Get the flush done (based on GM TSB 18-NA-355) as soon as possible, warranty or not. From your description it seems you may still be able to save the torque converter.
This...

Where in San Diego are you?
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Old 03-07-2022, 10:16 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by 2SS Capt View Post
This...

Where in San Diego are you?
Thank you guys for your feedback. I am near downtown.
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Old 03-07-2022, 11:17 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandiegocamaro View Post
Thank you guys for your feedback. I am near downtown.
If you ever want to meet up, let me know, I'm in North County...
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Added after delivery: - GMP CAI, GMP Black Strut Tower Brace, MRR017 1LE Wheels, SS Armrest, Black Fuel Door, Stainless Sport Pedals, SS Wheel Caps, Black Lugs/Locks, GM Splash Guards, DD Smoked LED Markers, Smoked Rear Reflectors, Mishimoto Catch Can, Xpel PPF - Full Front, SunTek 35% Tint, CeramicPro coating, RST Stainless Brake Lines, Castrol SRF, MSD Super Conductor Wires

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Old 03-08-2022, 07:41 AM   #6
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Im dubious whether the flush will be a permanent cure at this point with 35k miles. It may or may not be. Id say 50/50 chance. It may fix for a while, but it may return after 5, 10, 20k miles.

I have a TC that exhibits/exhibited the shudder before and after a flush. Fixed for about 10k miles, then returned. I was able to fix permanently with retuning the tcm. The stock tcm config expects some small degree of tc clutch slip (clutch not locked super tight). This is supposedly for noise/vibration/harshness concerns in V4 mode. The slip is supposedly to absorb the more staccato rhythm in V4 mode. However it has trouble modulating the slip due to the fluid issues, and this is what causes the shudder... more or less. Trying to condense a lot of info into something readable here.

I applied a fix via a tcm config change to reduce that expected slip to zero, and have not had any issues since. However ive also got AFM disabled, so not sure what that might feel like in V4 mode.

With that said, getting your tcm unlocked and retuned... doing all that yourself will set you back prob a grand or so if you include the cost of the HP Tuners device, tcm unlock service, and credits. In addition, getting the old fluid out is something you should do regardless, so go ahead and flush. Just wanted to give some options should the flush not be a perm fix.

Lmk if you have questions. If you want to dig in, there are options.
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Old 03-08-2022, 08:13 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjperformance View Post
Im dubious whether the flush will be a permanent cure at this point with 35k miles. It may or may not be. Id say 50/50 chance. It may fix for a while, but it may return after 5, 10, 20k miles.

I have a TC that exhibits/exhibited the shudder before and after a flush. Fixed for about 10k miles, then returned. I was able to fix permanently with retuning the tcm. The stock tcm config expects some small degree of tc clutch slip (clutch not locked super tight). This is supposedly for noise/vibration/harshness concerns in V4 mode. The slip is supposedly to absorb the more staccato rhythm in V4 mode. However it has trouble modulating the slip due to the fluid issues, and this is what causes the shudder... more or less. Trying to condense a lot of info into something readable here.

I applied a fix via a tcm config change to reduce that expected slip to zero, and have not had any issues since. However ive also got AFM disabled, so not sure what that might feel like in V4 mode.

With that said, getting your tcm unlocked and retuned... doing all that yourself will set you back prob a grand or so if you include the cost of the HP Tuners device, tcm unlock service, and credits. In addition, getting the old fluid out is something you should do regardless, so go ahead and flush. Just wanted to give some options should the flush not be a perm fix.

Lmk if you have questions. If you want to dig in, there are options.
This comment of yours made me think about that fairy tale A10 and its tuning on non-ZL1 cars that have AFM and 4-cyl mode, thus a similar TCM tune.

I wonder if someone put the old fluid in one of these newer auto SS cars, would the A10 start shuddering just the same or not Of course we'll never know, the old fluid stock must have been used up already, and who would let their torque converter be damaged for such an experiment anyway, but it'd be interesting nevertheless.
__________________
2018 Camaro 2SS — G7E MX0 NPP F55 IO6
735 rwhp | 665 rwtq

Magnuson TVS 2300 80mm pulley | Kooks 1 7/8" LT headers | JRE smooth idle terminator cam | LT4 FS & injectors | TSP forged pistons & rods
JMS PowerMAX | DSX flex fuel kit | Roto-Fab CAI | Soler 95mm LT5 TB | 1LE wheels | 1LE brakes | BMR rear cradle lockout | JRE custom tune

1100 - 1/30/18 | 2000 - 1/31/18
3000 - 2/06/18 TPW 2/26/18
3400 - 2/19/18 | 3800 - 2/26/18
4300 - 2/27/18 | 4B00 - 3/01/18
4200 - 3/05/18 | 4800 - 3/14/18
5000 - 3/16/18 | 6000 - 3/19/18
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Old 03-08-2022, 08:25 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjperformance View Post
Im dubious whether the flush will be a permanent cure at this point with 35k miles. It may or may not be. Id say 50/50 chance. It may fix for a while, but it may return after 5, 10, 20k miles.

I have a TC that exhibits/exhibited the shudder before and after a flush. Fixed for about 10k miles, then returned. I was able to fix permanently with retuning the tcm. The stock tcm config expects some small degree of tc clutch slip (clutch not locked super tight). This is supposedly for noise/vibration/harshness concerns in V4 mode. The slip is supposedly to absorb the more staccato rhythm in V4 mode. However it has trouble modulating the slip due to the fluid issues, and this is what causes the shudder... more or less. Trying to condense a lot of info into something readable here.

I applied a fix via a tcm config change to reduce that expected slip to zero, and have not had any issues since. However ive also got AFM disabled, so not sure what that might feel like in V4 mode.

With that said, getting your tcm unlocked and retuned... doing all that yourself will set you back prob a grand or so if you include the cost of the HP Tuners device, tcm unlock service, and credits. In addition, getting the old fluid out is something you should do regardless, so go ahead and flush. Just wanted to give some options should the flush not be a perm fix.

Lmk if you have questions. If you want to dig in, there are options.
Bought my car new and tuned the TCM for zero slip almost right away. Nearly 5 years later and no shudder. Running mid 9’s on the stock converter to boot.
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Old 03-08-2022, 08:43 AM   #9
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I bought my SS with 900mi back in 2017. At 1500mi I noticed what I believe was shudder. I tuned the TCM right away and haven't had any shudder since. Currently at just under 16k miles which might not sound like a lot but I have a bunch of Dragy pulls logged. Imo the trans tuning makes the biggest difference. The "updated" fluid is just a bunch of hyperbole that was a cheap band-aid fix so GM didn't have to recall thousands of vehicles.

One thing I did notice was the TCC slip tables on the 10l90 found in the ZL1 are nearly identical to the 10l80 and 8l90 even though the ZL1 has AFM disabled. So either the converter and/or A10 trans has been redesigned to better handle the TCC slip. The TCC slip tables are not there solely for AFM, I believe they also help smooth the transition from TCC lock up to unlocked on a downshift. With the slip tables zero'd out the trans downshifts a bit rougher. It doesn't bother me...

Moral of the story...I suggest replacing the fluid and tuning the TCM if you plan on keeping the car. If not just get the fluid changed and it should keep it away for a while.
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