[Nor Cal ZL1]

Originally Posted by c4racer

I like the last paragraph. Manual is the best theft deterrent going !!

And part of the reason I will never ever valet my manual cars. I would walk a mile first!

I've driven manual cars since I was 15 and the vast majority of my daily drivers and hot rod / sports cars have had them. I hate autos with a passion. Almost as much as electric and self stock driving cars. I am happy manuals will depreciate - have no issue driving older cars if they stop making good manual cars. My favorite car of the 40+ I've owned and current daily driver is a 2003 M5. They sold 10K in the US over 4 model years and all were manual. Market prices are going through the roof and I would not sell mine for pretty much any price. So there is some evidence there is still a small group of car nuts out there that likes to be completely involved in the driving process. I am part of that group.
My SS is a manual. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Manual is not a theft deterent what so ever in the performance car world. Often times is is actually prefered that they find a manual. Hundreds of manual Camaro's have been stolen in the Bay Area. They are often found stripped on engine, tansmission, wheels, seats. In almost every case the cars were started and driven away, not towed. The theft is an epidemic in the area and a manual trans in no deterent.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Nor Cal ZL1

Manual is not a theft deterent what so ever in the performance car world. Often times is is actually prefered that they find a manual. Hundreds of manual Camaro's have been stolen in the Bay Area. They are often found stripped on engine, tansmission, wheels, seats. In almost every case the cars were started and driven away, not towed. The theft is an epidemic in the area and a manual trans in no deterent.

Bay area is one thing.

Most car thefts are by gangsters, thugs, drug dealers, and general hooligans who aren't looking for a sports car but rather just a car they can strip and sell for drug money or bail money or whatever. These goons couldn't drive a stick sober let alone on their pot, coke, heroin, or meth perpetual high they are on.

[Ls6larry]

I feel any sports car should be a stick. Now that being said these new autos are very good and tempting, but my point is this. You but an auto and your equil to everyone else. Your 90 year old grandma can get in there and floor it and go just as fast as you , not that a stick is hard to drive. There's a big difference in skill in driving and going fast, if you want a pure drag car, sure auto is the way to go, but just remember anyone can drive that car as fast as you.... Not the same for a stick. Plus at the road corse there's just something about shifting, that makes it far more fun and intune with the car in my opinion, so for me I'll own a stick regardless of it it's slower or what not

[Nor Cal ZL1]

A car with an automatic transmission, or too much of any sort of automation is like a really bad ass Gibson Les Paul, with a killer tube amp, and no guitar strings. It has its place, but for those who say its faster its, its newer, bla bla, bla, don't understand that it is an extension of control, and ability.

I will admire someone who can execute proper heal and toe shifts all day long, vs someone mindlessly tapping a paddle. Its coordination, risk, understanding, muscle memory, timing, vs well pushing a button.

[Nor Cal ZL1]

Choose your poison..... learning or pushing a button.

[marcgo2]

They won't go away because manufacturers can keep charging $1500+ for the "option" of an auto.

[jdasnt3]

I'm 50, and bought my first auto Camaro this time around. Prefer it in every way overy the M6 now.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by Nor Cal ZL1

Choose your poison..... learning or pushing a button.

That's a false analogy. First, most anyone can learn to drive a stick in an afternoon, and be really good at it by driving it every day for a couple of days. You can learn to heel-toe in a couple of weeks of practice. You can't learn to play guitar in an afternoon, and be Jimi Hendrix in a couple of weeks.

Second, a guitar string can be bent, hammered on, pulled off, slide up, slide down, etc., and those things give the artist more degrees of freedom to accentuate the music, like vibrato as one example. The guitar hero guitar does not support those activities (other than a whammy bar). But the only effect that the manual has on the performance of the car is to make it a bit slower. It doesn't give you any extra capabilities that the auto doesn't.

Keep in mind, many of the first cars you had to manually adjust the distributor timing while driving using a lever. Then came vacuum advance, centrifugal advance, etc. Then came electronic ignition. A manual lever to adjust the timing gives the driver more control, and is more engaging, and takes more skill. But do you want to have to adjust the timing while driving because it is more involving and takes more skill to drive? Probably not.

Shifting can be fun. And I hope that car companies continue to offer a manual in their performance models. But let's not over hype what a manual has to offer the driver. It lets you row through the gears while making you slower.

[nate.the.great]

Originally Posted by ron scubadiver

The manual vs auto debate changed a lot about 4 years ago when automatic transmissions got a whole lot better. It used to be an M6 produced faster acceleration and lower fuel consumption than an A6, but when A8 transmissions started showing up the tables turned leaving manuals with nothing but "involvement".

that's the truth. i bought a manual because i enjoy the involvement. usually manuals are more reliable and do a better job holding value.

[Spanky1]

Originally Posted by nate.the.great

that's the truth. i bought a manual because i enjoy the involvement. usually manuals are more reliable and do a better job holding value.

They may be more reliable but they certainly do not hold their value more than an auto!

[stars_fan]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

The A8 in the Camaro does the same thing. Especially if you are going down hill. The car downshifts and engine brakes. The software running the transmission is so damn smart these days.

It's similar but not the same as active rev match.

Originally Posted by Number 3

And, simply my opinion, a DCT is the best of both worlds. A machine shifted manual transmission, lightning fast up and down. And i'll bet even those are surpassed as we try to get every last bit of FE and performance from future cars.

DCT's are horrid in stop and go traffic and every day driving. Been there done that and the "technology" isn't there yet. Honda is the first company to get DCT transmissions right. I just had a TLX loaner the other day with the 8 speed and it actually didn't drive like shit.

[SpeedIsLife]

Ah I nearly forgot it was time for the bi annual Automatic vs Stick argument.

Time flies!

[marcgo2]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Ah I nearly forgot it was time for the bi annual Automatic vs Stick argument.

Time flies!

More like monthly.

[nate.the.great]

Originally Posted by Spanky1

They may be more reliable but they certainly do not hold their value more than an auto!

Should you deduct value ahead of time if you order a manual transmission? "This comes with a big 'if,'" says Eric Lyman, ALG's Vice President of Residual Value Solutions. "If you're selling a performance sports car where enthusiasts and adrenaline junkies make up the majority of buyers of these types of vehicles....sometimes the manual transmission can be more valuable than the automatic."

I'm new to the Camaro world, but manuals are absolutely more valuable in the Subaru and Audi world.

Originally Posted by stars_fan

It's similar but not the same as active rev match.

DCT's are horrid in stop and go traffic and every day driving. Been there done that and the "technology" isn't there yet. Honda is the first company to get DCT transmissions right. I just had a TLX loaner the other day with the 8 speed and it actually didn't drive like shit.

Ugh, my DSG 2011 Audi S4 was absolute garbage in low speed stop and go traffic. I think they updated the transmission in later years to allow more clutch slip for smoother low speed downshifts. Who knows if that affects clutch life though...