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Old 07-01-2024, 10:48 AM   #1
Saberscar223
 
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Are the performance gains the MSD has over a Ported LT2 worth it?

Im about to get ported OEM heads and the BTR 220 installed on my car. Ive heard the MSD is better for this setup but..... its super ugly to me. Im really big into keeping the engine bay pretty and with the LT2 IM you can have the cool looking engine cover and fit the CAMARO fuel rail covers on the side but MSD makes the engine bay look bad with everything on the sides exposed.

Was anyone able to make the MSD look good in the engine bay? would extra hp from the MSD over the LT2 even be noticeable?

The dream would be to keep the stock IM and engine cover and paint them or get them in carbon, but I know I'll be missing out on too much performance for that to be worth it. Really wish aftermarket IM designers would put some effort into making them at least a little less of an eyesore or designed them to still work with the OEM fuel rail covers.
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Old 07-01-2024, 11:27 AM   #2
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Heads and cam are where the MSD actually makes sense, but the LT2 is still a nice improvement. If you want the highest possible rev range, MSD is it. If you arent chasing every last horsepower high up in the rev range, LT2 will be perfectly fine for you.

Also, if you arent chasing times, I doubt the difference between the two would be very noticeable at all.
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Old 07-01-2024, 01:00 PM   #3
KC64
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So,,, does the ported LT2 bolt right in place without any modification?
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Old 07-01-2024, 01:01 PM   #4
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I was planning on buying mine from GPI and they modify it to fit.
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Old 07-01-2024, 02:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC64 View Post
So,,, does the ported LT2 bolt right in place without any modification?
The short answer is no. But Phastek sells a DIY modification kit with nice instructions. GPI will do the modifications for you for an extra fee. I enjoy the DIY challenge and do enjoy pinching the occasional penny. You can pick up the LT2 intake from Rockauto for $190. The cover is an extra $120, if you like max bling. I don't believe Phastek or GPI sell the cover, but I could be wrong, I know Phastek doesn't per conversation with a sales agent.

From what data I've managed to find on dyno results, porting produces marginal results, and no matter what you do you'll likely never be able to port match to a set of ported heads. As far as porting the inlet for the TB, it's designed for 87mm, but with an adapter you can bolt up the 95mm LT5. I suspect the gains would be marginal for NA, but if you're scratching for every last HP, the LT5 TB comes pretty cheap. But if you're paying to have the manifold work done, then it's really no sweat off your back.

The real PITA comes when you want to use the LT4 HPFP or similar, as you'll need an intake port spacer to lift the manifold higher due to clearance issues with the taller fuel pump. You already have to shave the bottom ribbing of the manifold to clear the fuel lines and LT1 HPFP. The LT4 is about 3/4" taller than the LT1.

I finally have my engine far enough to start dry mounting the pump and LT2 IM so I can get detailed pictures for my build thread. Since I'll be measuring pump lash, it'll be a good time. It drove me nuts for weeks because no one else seemed to talk about the LT2 on supercharged applications, but I suppose it's because there are so few of us using the LT2 vs the MSD or bigger.
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2008 Mustang GT M5 - Procharger D1SC 440whp/480wtq @8psi (SOLD 2013)
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Old 07-02-2024, 09:15 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyGhost702 View Post
The short answer is no. But Phastek sells a DIY modification kit with nice instructions. GPI will do the modifications for you for an extra fee. I enjoy the DIY challenge and do enjoy pinching the occasional penny. You can pick up the LT2 intake from Rockauto for $190. The cover is an extra $120, if you like max bling. I don't believe Phastek or GPI sell the cover, but I could be wrong, I know Phastek doesn't per conversation with a sales agent.

From what data I've managed to find on dyno results, porting produces marginal results, and no matter what you do you'll likely never be able to port match to a set of ported heads. As far as porting the inlet for the TB, it's designed for 87mm, but with an adapter you can bolt up the 95mm LT5. I suspect the gains would be marginal for NA, but if you're scratching for every last HP, the LT5 TB comes pretty cheap. But if you're paying to have the manifold work done, then it's really no sweat off your back.

The real PITA comes when you want to use the LT4 HPFP or similar, as you'll need an intake port spacer to lift the manifold higher due to clearance issues with the taller fuel pump. You already have to shave the bottom ribbing of the manifold to clear the fuel lines and LT1 HPFP. The LT4 is about 3/4" taller than the LT1.

I finally have my engine far enough to start dry mounting the pump and LT2 IM so I can get detailed pictures for my build thread. Since I'll be measuring pump lash, it'll be a good time. It drove me nuts for weeks because no one else seemed to talk about the LT2 on supercharged applications, but I suppose it's because there are so few of us using the LT2 vs the MSD or bigger.
SMGspeed has a Stage 3 ported LT2 available as well, has all the modifications done for one and done bolt on. (Excluding the LT4 HPFP thing)
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Old 07-02-2024, 09:54 AM   #7
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It is my understanding that the LT2 cover will not fit and will rub on the hood of the Camaro. I have been waiting for somebody to 3D print one up that would work but so far there is nothing that I know of.
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Old 07-02-2024, 11:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slip3Kid View Post
It is my understanding that the LT2 cover will not fit and will rub on the hood of the Camaro. I have been waiting for somebody to 3D print one up that would work but so far there is nothing that I know of.
That is not true.

The intake that is a problem is the Hi-Ram intake that requires a hole cut in the hood or a COPO Camaro hood solution.
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Old 07-02-2024, 12:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlukeSS View Post
That is not true.

The intake that is a problem is the Hi-Ram intake that requires a hole cut in the hood or a COPO Camaro hood solution.
I remember a couple threads where folks added clearance.

Example:
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=19

There is another where someone else ground the front of the cover. Can't find it.

Maybe a difference with the facelift hood?

Edit: Another example
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showp...&postcount=290
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Old 07-02-2024, 02:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slip3Kid View Post
It is my understanding that the LT2 cover will not fit and will rub on the hood of the Camaro. I have been waiting for somebody to 3D print one up that would work but so far there is nothing that I know of.
Yes, when I ran the LT2 with the cover, the very front of it would rub on the hood. It put two little lines in the liner, but thats it. It won't hurt anything.
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Old 07-02-2024, 02:25 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Hostile_1LE View Post
Yes, when I ran the LT2 with the cover, the very front of it would rub on the hood. It put two little lines in the liner, but thats it. It won't hurt anything.
Do you have a link for the cover?
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Old 07-02-2024, 08:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canyonero View Post
I remember a couple threads where folks added clearance.

Example:
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=19

There is another where someone else ground the front of the cover. Can't find it.

Maybe a difference with the facelift hood?

Edit: Another example
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showp...&postcount=290

First link: He doesn't have a stock hood, so that's his doing.

Second Link: He's using a Corvette manifold cover. No vents on the hood either.

More than likely custom hoods and/or manifold covers.

Here's mine without issue. Yes I know the under hood is dirty :x Dirt signifies where all the magic happens.

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2020 Camaro 2SS A10 | Rebuilt by: CBI Street Cars | 2" SE LT Headers | 3" SE X-Pipe | 3" MBRP Axle-Back | Pri & Sec Cat Deletes | Roto-Fab CAI | LT2 Ported | 95mm ZR1 TB | LSA crankshaft conversion w/modified crank gear | LS1 thrust bearing | LS MSD Plug Wire Set | BTR Stage I Cam | ARP Rod Bolts | Delphi Lifter set | NGK LTR71X-11 spark plug set | DOD Delete | VVT Limiter | ECM, TCM & E85 | Retuned by: Justin L. | Dyno: 510 rwhp 472 rwtq | Best 1/4 Time: 11.639

Last edited by FlukeSS; 07-02-2024 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 07-03-2024, 09:31 AM   #13
GreyGhost702
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saberscar223 View Post
Im about to get ported OEM heads and the BTR 220 installed on my car. Ive heard the MSD is better for this setup but..... its super ugly to me. Im really big into keeping the engine bay pretty and with the LT2 IM you can have the cool looking engine cover and fit the CAMARO fuel rail covers on the side but MSD makes the engine bay look bad with everything on the sides exposed.

Was anyone able to make the MSD look good in the engine bay? would extra hp from the MSD over the LT2 even be noticeable?

The dream would be to keep the stock IM and engine cover and paint them or get them in carbon, but I know I'll be missing out on too much performance for that to be worth it. Really wish aftermarket IM designers would put some effort into making them at least a little less of an eyesore or designed them to still work with the OEM fuel rail covers.

If you’re not racing in a fashion where every hp counts, I wouldn’t sweat the LT2 at all. The MSD is clearly the better performer, but at its price point is it worth $1,000 difference for roughly 10-15hp peak? If the LT2 gets you to 500whp NA, and the MSD gets you 510whp, that’s worth about 1mph trap in the 1/4 mile, or less than .1 E/T, on paper. Seat of the pants, I don’t think you’d even feel it. I am eager to get the LT2 under boost and see how it breathes.
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2019 1SS1LE M6 Shadow Grey Metallic
4/2/2024 "Under the Knife..." Build in progress

Previous Rides:
1996 Ford Thunderbird V8 - PI Swapped & Comp Cammed 310whp/330wtq (SOLD 2003)
1991 Ford Thunderbird SC - Ported & Tuned (CEF 2005, SOLD 2005)
2001 Mustang V6 (SOLD 2006)
2008 Mustang GT M5 - Procharger D1SC 440whp/480wtq @8psi (SOLD 2013)
2013 WRX M5 - Cobb Tuned (SOLD 2017)
2014 Focus ST - Cobb Tuned & Re-piped Hot Side (SOLD 2019)
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Old 07-03-2024, 02:50 PM   #14
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Are the performance gains the MSD has over a Ported LT2 worth it?

imho for a bolt on car, no. cam or heads cam absolutely.

shaving and painting the msd makes its appearance bearable. i've had 3 msd manifolds and 2 of them were shaved & painted (also ported by mamo).
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