[SSEssence]

Anything based on a FWD chassis is not a Hot Rod to me even with 400 hp, I'll take a ATS V over that anyday!

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by PDXSSCE

With the 2017 Continental & MKZ they're definitely on the right track.

Not really. Reskinning Fords & adding some 'checkbox luxury' items is the same thing they've been doing for quite a while. Hasn't done anything to build up the reputation of the brand thus far, and there is nothing in the MKZ or Continental that I can see that changes that.

If Ford wants Lincoln to be compared against Buick and Acura, this is perfectly acceptable. It will bring in a tidy extra profit over the base car for minimal investment. But if they want to be in the realm of Audi or Mercedes then they have to do a lot more. Even Cadillac isn't there yet with 15 years and billions of investment. But at least people don't outright laugh at the idea that Caddy can play with the Germans anymore. Or most don't anyway. And again, it took a decade and a half & tons of cash just to get that far.

I don't see Ford making anything approaching that kind of commitment to Lincoln. The new Continental is proof of that. They could have delivered an absolute stunner of a car that rocked the automotive world. No, it wouldn't instantly propel the brand into the top ranks of the 'regular' luxury brands. But it would at least move the needle for Lincoln. Instead, Ford grafted whatever concept car styling elements they could onto the bones of a Taurus & hoped nobody would notice.

[camguynj]

For those that are too young to know the song " "Son, you're gonna' drive me to drinkin' If you don't stop drivin' that Hot Rod Lincoln."

[Mr. Wyndham]

Looks very....Jag.....

[PDXSSCE]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Not really. Reskinning Fords & adding some 'checkbox luxury' items is the same thing they've been doing for quite a while. Hasn't done anything to build up the reputation of the brand thus far, and there is nothing in the MKZ or Continental that I can see that changes that.

If Ford wants Lincoln to be compared against Buick and Acura, this is perfectly acceptable. It will bring in a tidy extra profit over the base car for minimal investment. But if they want to be in the realm of Audi or Mercedes then they have to do a lot more. Even Cadillac isn't there yet with 15 years and billions of investment. But at least people don't outright laugh at the idea that Caddy can play with the Germans anymore. Or most don't anyway. And again, it took a decade and a half & tons of cash just to get that far.

I don't see Ford making anything approaching that kind of commitment to Lincoln. The new Continental is proof of that. They could have delivered an absolute stunner of a car that rocked the automotive world. No, it wouldn't instantly propel the brand into the top ranks of the 'regular' luxury brands. But it would at least move the needle for Lincoln. Instead, Ford grafted whatever concept car styling elements they could onto the bones of a Taurus & hoped nobody would notice.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion & I realize the MKZ will be under appreciated in a performance forum. I believe the car is more than a reskinned Ford, even with the shared platform. We should remember, GM is king of the shared platform.

Lincoln has stated that with the Continental, they're not attempting to offer something European, but a vehicle which is 'distinctly American'. I'm pleased with their decision & feel they've delivered. I think we should all applaud it.

The MKZ will appeal to young executives or those with less than top of the line income who prefer luxury over performance. I hope it's a huge success & maybe Cadillac will bring back real tailfins.

[DRKS1D3]

The interior looks great, the exterior is likeable (the integrated spoiler is very sharp), the wheels are hideous and too skinny. A more aggressive looking 5-spoke would be more attractive with ~275 tires on all corners. It is certainly no ATS-V.

[its a syn]

But, will it be legal in demolition derbys in the future? J/K. Good looking car from Lincoln in a long time!

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by DRKS1D3

The interior looks great, the exterior is likeable (the integrated spoiler is very sharp), the wheels are hideous and too skinny. A more aggressive looking 5-spoke would be more attractive with ~275 tires on all corners. It is certainly no ATS-V.

One has to remember that Lincoln isn't trying to build an ATS, V or otherwise. Focusing on the product first isn't always he best method, look ATS & CTS' sales.

They are currently bringing out incrementally better vehicles over time. LMC's primary focus has been on improving the customer experience first. Then, they can really go to work on product.

That's not being said to belittle the current product that is available. Differentiation has obviously been brought to the front of the "to do" list when designing Lincoln vehicles with FoMoCo siblings.

However, these products are meant to be a segway to future product that will more befit a luxury nameplate. Nothing more...nothing less.

[DRKS1D3]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

One has to remember that Lincoln isn't trying to build an ATS, V or otherwise. Focusing on the product first isn't always he best method, look ATS & CTS' sales.

They are currently bringing out incrementally better vehicles over time. LMC's primary focus has been on improving the customer experience first. Then, they can really go to work on product.

That's not being said to belittle the current product that is available. Differentiation has obviously been brought to the front of the "to do" list when designing Lincoln vehicles with FoMoCo siblings.

However, these products are meant to be a segway to future product that will more befit a luxury nameplate. Nothing more...nothing less.

I wasn't insinuating that Ford was trying to make a direct adversary to the ATS-V. One can make the correlation between the two however. Ford has dropped a more powerful engine into this iteration of the vehicle in order to make it stand apart from its siblings of the same name. The ATS-V is in a completely different segment than what Ford is going for with Lincoln. They are trying to recapture the crowd that once adored the Lincoln luxury years ago. Heck, Lincoln was on the cusp of folding up with Mercury not too long ago. It's an interesting vehicle for a 50+ year old business executive; however, being 35, I'm more attracted to the ATS-V.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by DRKS1D3

I wasn't insinuating that Ford was trying to make a direct adversary to the ATS-V. One can make the correlation between the two however. Ford has dropped a more powerful engine into this iteration of the vehicle in order to make it stand apart from its siblings of the same name. The ATS-V is in a completely different segment than what Ford is going for with Lincoln. They are trying to recapture the crowd that once adored the Lincoln luxury years ago. Heck, Lincoln was on the cusp of folding up with Mercury not too long ago. It's an interesting vehicle for a 50+ year old business executive; however, being 35, I'm more attracted to the ATS-V.

Believe me, I understand that mentality. But at 32 I have to wonder, how many people our age are buying ATS-V's, or any of their ilk?

While there are those of us who; own our own homes, buy big ticket items, etc, but there is also the fact a that some 29% of millenials are living at "home" until they're near 30.

Marketing to our age group is a gamble that I don't feel Lincoln should make. . . yet. Once more revenue is being generated then by all means of love to see Lincoln get their hands on S650 or its successor. Of course by then I will be much closer to the typical luxury buyer's age anyway.

[DRKS1D3]

I believe the ATS-V is aimed at the early 30 crowd. If I lived down south, I'd own one. Here in PA I have my SS as a weekend toy and my Cruze as a DD, whereas in Florida per se, I'd have the ATS-V as a DD. That ~$65k price tag is a little too steep to justify having it as a toy. It was smart of GM to make a cheaper V model.

It seems as if Cadillac and Lincoln are going in two different directions. Caddy more sport, Lincoln more old time luxury. I hope Lincoln can get their feet back under them. Competition between brands breeds success.

[PDXSSCE]

Originally Posted by DRKS1D3

...It seems as if Cadillac and Lincoln are going in two different directions. Caddy more sport, Lincoln more old time luxury. I hope Lincoln can get their feet back under them. Competition between brands breeds success.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by DRKS1D3

I believe the ATS-V is aimed at the early 30 crowd. If I lived down south, I'd own one. Here in PA I have my SS as a weekend toy and my Cruze as a DD, whereas in Florida per se, I'd have the ATS-V as a DD. That ~$65k price tag is a little too steep to justify having it as a toy. It was smart of GM to make a cheaper V model.

It seems as if Cadillac and Lincoln are going in two different directions. Caddy more sport, Lincoln more old time luxury. I hope Lincoln can get their feet back under them. Competition between brands breeds success.

Therein lies the rub. Looking at the sales totals shows ATS being handily outsold by MKZ.

ATS 2016... jan-1,067 feb-1,591 mar-1,859- apr-1,737 may-1,630 jun-1,880 jul-2,119 aug-2,477 sep-1,770 oct-1,593 ytd-17,723

Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/cadil...#ixzz4RYCznY9R

MKZ 2016 jan-1,946 feb-2,128 mar-2,480 apr-2,129 may-3,250 jun-2,760 jul-2,968 aug-2,754 sep- 2,447 oct-2,481 yrd-25,343

Read more: http://fordauthority.com/fmc/ford-mo...#ixzz4RYDdMWaE

Lincoln at this point has to get as many sales as possible to build revenue. That way they can later inject some excitement into the brand. For now the current crop of Lincolns and those in the pipeline as what LMC needs now. Are they what performance enthusiasts want? No. Are they steadily increasing sales for the brand? Yes.

[DRKS1D3]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

Therein lies the rub. Looking at the sales totals shows ATS being handily outsold by MKZ.

ATS 2016... jan-1,067 feb-1,591 mar-1,859- apr-1,737 may-1,630 jun-1,880 jul-2,119 aug-2,477 sep-1,770 oct-1,593 ytd-17,723

Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/cadil...#ixzz4RYCznY9R

MKZ 2016 jan-1,946 feb-2,128 mar-2,480 apr-2,129 may-3,250 jun-2,760 jul-2,968 aug-2,754 sep- 2,447 oct-2,481 yrd-25,343

Read more: http://fordauthority.com/fmc/ford-mo...#ixzz4RYDdMWaE

Lincoln at this point has to get as many sales as possible to build revenue. That way they can later inject some excitement into the brand. For now the current crop of Lincolns and those in the pipeline as what LMC needs now. Are they what performance enthusiasts want? No. Are they steadily increasing sales for the brand? Yes.

It all makes sense. Theoretically, ~50 year olds should have more money to spend than ~30 year olds. On top of that, when Lincoln almost capsized with Mercury, many of their long time fans are now excited to see them putting out some new and innovative vehicles. After years of floundering around, it almost took them folding-up-shop to realize that it's time to get back in the game. There IS a market for American luxury.