Lesson learned. Skip the intake - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Soybeanrice · 06-27-2016, 01:02 PM

So, I just got a call from next level performance to pick up the car after the retune and the results are interesting. Now, it could be the warmer weather, however the dyno is inside.

I'll get the chart here when I pick up the car but I went from the stock intake, TB and manifold to the adm performance intake, got the throttle body ported by Bo White, and I got the "rod modded" intake manifold. Also, i put in polyurethane engine mounts and the polyurethane tranny mount insert.

Overall I was told that I gained 9 horsepower. I'll still bring it to the track to see a difference, but between the hot weather and me being a complete novice at the track I only got to 12.4 in the quarter (street tires, 1le setup with mpss in the back)

I've always been a skeptic in terms of aftermarket intakes and this result is kinda proving it. I may be using stock heads, but I doubt that they're bottlenecking. I was reading that any bottle neck would be on the exhaust side of the heads before the intake.

I'm also considering swapping out the cam from a btr stage 3 to a custom grind that is not as aggressive. The current cam only wakes up above 4k... I just need to work up the will to do it again.

Any ideas on how I can improve guys? I plan on addressing suspension and I still plan on getting in plenty of track time (road course and drag)

A final note with this result. I'm probably going to sell the adm intake and go with the z28 to free up room for the brake ducts and to compare results again

Bo White · 06-27-2016, 04:03 PM

Unless your going smaller I'd stay with the cam you have. The BTR 3 is one of the best cams I've seen that has the best mix of bottom and top in the power curve which is why I'm running it. I don't think cost/effort would justify the reward of swapping cams. I'm a firm believer in cold air intakes. I've seen too many cars run well with them. ADM has good products so I trust that their intake is good but haven't seen one in person.

Soybeanrice · 06-27-2016, 04:24 PM

Soybeanrice · 06-27-2016, 04:29 PM

There is a 20 degree difference in temperature between the two runs.

I wonder if that attributes to any lost power.

After driving the car, I can say that it definitely feels a little more "crisp". There was some really bad haromics around the 2k-3k range but now it is mostly gone. I havent been on it as I'll just save it for the track. Still sounds and drives about the same.

The reason why I'm considering another cam is because the only next thing to do are the heads and the header-back with the exhaust. Maybe if I can get better at the hole shot I wont need one lol.. Its pretty sad. I either bog or spin and it kills the 60. Considering the main goal of the car is road courses I dont want to put too much emphasis on the drag strip... but it does suck to have bad 60s =(.

Can someone confirm that the stock NPP is either 2.5 inch or 2 and a quarter? I was told in the muffler it goes to 2.25 but I have never heard of that before until today.

Pretty much my stance on cold air intakes is this, besides the reduced harmonics (solves by the sound boxes) causing a little restriction, what reason does GM have to restrict ANY airflow to the engine. All the EPA requirements are done within the tune, heads and cats right? Just my thoughts.

Bo White · 06-27-2016, 04:43 PM

Nope. SAE conversion does a good job of keeping it on point.

Soybeanrice · 06-27-2016, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo White

Nope. SAE conversion does a good job of keeping it on point.

Then I'm not understanding how a different intake is supposed to make that much difference. The only thing I can think of now is that when I get the heads done to address the exhaust ports, that the intake will be available to come along for the ride too... thats about it.

I know that all the companies marketing their intakes arent saying you need heads with their intake for the ultimate gain so what gives?

At this point I'm gonna say that the difference between the two charts is negligible

DOC52 · 06-28-2016, 03:03 AM

If you're unsatisfied with your gpi rod mod intake I'll take it off your hands.

Jasper · 06-28-2016, 10:43 AM

If I had it to do again, I would have skipped my intake as well for the amount it costs and the fact the VTC give me way more for the buck.

Unreal · 06-28-2016, 10:56 AM

It made 460rwhp before and 455rwhp after. That is what the temperature does to it. That is why it was SAE .99 before and 1.02 after. You actually made more power before, but with the SAE correction you gained a bit.

davidscamaro · 06-28-2016, 12:04 PM

9whp is about 12 crank hp , and for the parts you put on I'd say your getting what you should in gains . tests done by JRE show that on average 5hp for intake and 3hp for ported throttle body, and gaining no power from switching to a fast manifold. It's right on par with your gains ,be happy at least you did not lose any hp or tq

GONIF · 06-28-2016, 12:43 PM

The result was about what others have got . “Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.”
― Groucho Marx

trw427ss · 06-28-2016, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soybeanrice

There is a 20 degree difference in temperature between the two runs.

I wonder if that attributes to any lost power.

After driving the car, I can say that it definitely feels a little more "crisp". There was some really bad haromics around the 2k-3k range but now it is mostly gone. I havent been on it as I'll just save it for the track. Still sounds and drives about the same.

The reason why I'm considering another cam is because the only next thing to do are the heads and the header-back with the exhaust. Maybe if I can get better at the hole shot I wont need one lol.. Its pretty sad. I either bog or spin and it kills the 60. Considering the main goal of the car is road courses I dont want to put too much emphasis on the drag strip... but it does suck to have bad 60s =(.

Can someone confirm that the stock NPP is either 2.5 inch or 2 and a quarter? I was told in the muffler it goes to 2.25 but I have never heard of that before until today.

Pretty much my stance on cold air intakes is this, besides the reduced harmonics (solves by the sound boxes) causing a little restriction, what reason does GM have to restrict ANY airflow to the engine. All the EPA requirements are done within the tune, heads and cats right? Just my thoughts.

The NPP exhaust is not a restriction I have them on my car and have ran 10.72 @ 128 in the 1/4 mile naturally aspirated!

985ss · 06-28-2016, 02:55 PM

Even if your only picking up 8-10 hp, if your buying a $400 part that requires no supporting modifications and is a 30 minute install it seems like a decent deal. You get some power, some sound, a new look, has no negative effects on reliability, and gives you a small bit of uniqueness compared to other owners in your area if your into that scene. I'd call that decent bang for your buck.

Soybeanrice · 06-28-2016, 04:03 PM

My problem with all of this is that I did not only spend 400 bucks on the intake.

My previous run was just a cam and long tube headers.

This run I put in the adm intake, a ported TB and NOT a fast intake, but a rod modded intake.

The adm intake claims 10 and costs 400+ the scoop and water bottle.

The ported TB costs 150-200..i didn't expect anything tbh.

And the rod modded intake manifold claims 10-15 and costs 250.

Not that I expected anything, but I thought going from the stock motor mounts to polyurethane, would've net something due to the claimed "deflection" too.

So now you can see where something is missing. My main draw back from this is that if you do things that really matter, like the heads, headers and a cam swap, that's where you're gonna get real numbers and not some negligible junk. Overall I spent roughly 900 bucks for 9hp and 1lost torque (this doesn't include the cost of the mounts) .

Also, by going with the adm intake and scoop, I realized after the fact, that I now have to find a solution if I ever want brake ducts because the scoop is in the way.

Getting the heads worked on would've cost more, yes, but would've been way more beneficial.

I do have some good news.

Within a month or two I will be making a trip back to the tuner and will be isolating some of these parts, including the exhaust for testing. I suspect one item isn't doing what it claims and this isolation should show what.

06-27-2016, 01:02 PM	#1
Soybeanrice Drives: 2014 2SS/RS Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 793	Lesson learned. Skip the intake So, I just got a call from next level performance to pick up the car after the retune and the results are interesting. Now, it could be the warmer weather, however the dyno is inside. I'll get the chart here when I pick up the car but I went from the stock intake, TB and manifold to the adm performance intake, got the throttle body ported by Bo White, and I got the "rod modded" intake manifold. Also, i put in polyurethane engine mounts and the polyurethane tranny mount insert. Overall I was told that I gained 9 horsepower. I'll still bring it to the track to see a difference, but between the hot weather and me being a complete novice at the track I only got to 12.4 in the quarter (street tires, 1le setup with mpss in the back) I've always been a skeptic in terms of aftermarket intakes and this result is kinda proving it. I may be using stock heads, but I doubt that they're bottlenecking. I was reading that any bottle neck would be on the exhaust side of the heads before the intake. I'm also considering swapping out the cam from a btr stage 3 to a custom grind that is not as aggressive. The current cam only wakes up above 4k... I just need to work up the will to do it again. Any ideas on how I can improve guys? I plan on addressing suspension and I still plan on getting in plenty of track time (road course and drag) A final note with this result. I'm probably going to sell the adm intake and go with the z28 to free up room for the brake ducts and to compare results again Last edited by Soybeanrice; 06-27-2016 at 10:48 PM. Reason: Edit title so hopefully no one continues to make this mistake... but I doubt it LMAO. complete hype.

06-27-2016, 04:03 PM	#2
Bo White Drives: 2015 Summit White 2SS 1LE Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Vance Alabama Posts: 8,019	Unless your going smaller I'd stay with the cam you have. The BTR 3 is one of the best cams I've seen that has the best mix of bottom and top in the power curve which is why I'm running it. I don't think cost/effort would justify the reward of swapping cams. I'm a firm believer in cold air intakes. I've seen too many cars run well with them. ADM has good products so I trust that their intake is good but haven't seen one in person. __________________ Retired wanna be cylinder head porter 2015 2SS 1LE Clutch reservoir, Vararam DRX, ported TB, TSP 2" headers, MGW shifter Totalled: 2010 1SS Wilkes Performance/Eagle 416 shortblock, TSP custom valvetrain, PRC 260 heads, Edelbrock Pro Flo 102, th400 swap, 8" PTC 5500 stall= 535/435 at the wheels tuned Gen 3 Performance and Dyno 10.97 @ 124 full weight in 3100 DA CamaroFest X

06-27-2016, 04:24 PM	#3
Soybeanrice Drives: 2014 2SS/RS Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 793	Comparison Chart

06-27-2016, 04:29 PM	#4
Soybeanrice Drives: 2014 2SS/RS Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 793	There is a 20 degree difference in temperature between the two runs. I wonder if that attributes to any lost power. After driving the car, I can say that it definitely feels a little more "crisp". There was some really bad haromics around the 2k-3k range but now it is mostly gone. I havent been on it as I'll just save it for the track. Still sounds and drives about the same. The reason why I'm considering another cam is because the only next thing to do are the heads and the header-back with the exhaust. Maybe if I can get better at the hole shot I wont need one lol.. Its pretty sad. I either bog or spin and it kills the 60. Considering the main goal of the car is road courses I dont want to put too much emphasis on the drag strip... but it does suck to have bad 60s =(. Can someone confirm that the stock NPP is either 2.5 inch or 2 and a quarter? I was told in the muffler it goes to 2.25 but I have never heard of that before until today. Pretty much my stance on cold air intakes is this, besides the reduced harmonics (solves by the sound boxes) causing a little restriction, what reason does GM have to restrict ANY airflow to the engine. All the EPA requirements are done within the tune, heads and cats right? Just my thoughts. Last edited by Soybeanrice; 06-27-2016 at 10:43 PM.

06-27-2016, 04:43 PM	#5
Bo White Drives: 2015 Summit White 2SS 1LE Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Vance Alabama Posts: 8,019	Nope. SAE conversion does a good job of keeping it on point. __________________ Retired wanna be cylinder head porter 2015 2SS 1LE Clutch reservoir, Vararam DRX, ported TB, TSP 2" headers, MGW shifter Totalled: 2010 1SS Wilkes Performance/Eagle 416 shortblock, TSP custom valvetrain, PRC 260 heads, Edelbrock Pro Flo 102, th400 swap, 8" PTC 5500 stall= 535/435 at the wheels tuned Gen 3 Performance and Dyno 10.97 @ 124 full weight in 3100 DA CamaroFest X

06-28-2016, 03:03 AM	#7
DOC52 THE U Drives: Camaro 1SS/RS Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Northern California Posts: 601	If you're unsatisfied with your gpi rod mod intake I'll take it off your hands. __________________ DOC52 Build Thread Instagram Bay Area Stock

06-28-2016, 10:43 AM	#8
Jasper Drives: 2011 Summit White Camaro SS (LS3) Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Welland, Ontario Canada Posts: 542	If I had it to do again, I would have skipped my intake as well for the amount it costs and the fact the VTC give me way more for the buck. __________________ Mods: Vararam intake, Solo axleback, VTC, Overkill in-car Tune, 3.91's.

06-28-2016, 10:56 AM	#9
Unreal Drives: 2006 Z06 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 5,712	It made 460rwhp before and 455rwhp after. That is what the temperature does to it. That is why it was SAE .99 before and 1.02 after. You actually made more power before, but with the SAE correction you gained a bit. __________________ Nick Corvette Z06 -1200ish rwhp

06-28-2016, 12:04 PM	#10
davidscamaro Drives: 2010 SS/RS M6 BIG cam Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: McDonald's DT Posts: 857	9whp is about 12 crank hp , and for the parts you put on I'd say your getting what you should in gains . tests done by JRE show that on average 5hp for intake and 3hp for ported throttle body, and gaining no power from switching to a fast manifold. It's right on par with your gains ,be happy at least you did not lose any hp or tq

06-28-2016, 12:43 PM	#11
GONIF Drives: 73 VETTE ,, 05 2500hd diesel,14 1LE Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: The Left lane PHOENIX AZ Posts: 2,626	The result was about what others have got . “Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.” ― Groucho Marx __________________ OLD GUY FLYING FAST AND LOW

06-28-2016, 02:55 PM	#13
985ss Drives: 2011 SS Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: New Orleans Posts: 22	Even if your only picking up 8-10 hp, if your buying a $400 part that requires no supporting modifications and is a 30 minute install it seems like a decent deal. You get some power, some sound, a new look, has no negative effects on reliability, and gives you a small bit of uniqueness compared to other owners in your area if your into that scene. I'd call that decent bang for your buck.

06-28-2016, 04:03 PM	#14
Soybeanrice Drives: 2014 2SS/RS Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 793	My problem with all of this is that I did not only spend 400 bucks on the intake. My previous run was just a cam and long tube headers. This run I put in the adm intake, a ported TB and NOT a fast intake, but a rod modded intake. The adm intake claims 10 and costs 400+ the scoop and water bottle. The ported TB costs 150-200..i didn't expect anything tbh. And the rod modded intake manifold claims 10-15 and costs 250. Not that I expected anything, but I thought going from the stock motor mounts to polyurethane, would've net something due to the claimed "deflection" too. So now you can see where something is missing. My main draw back from this is that if you do things that really matter, like the heads, headers and a cam swap, that's where you're gonna get real numbers and not some negligible junk. Overall I spent roughly 900 bucks for 9hp and 1lost torque (this doesn't include the cost of the mounts) . Also, by going with the adm intake and scoop, I realized after the fact, that I now have to find a solution if I ever want brake ducts because the scoop is in the way. Getting the heads worked on would've cost more, yes, but would've been way more beneficial. I do have some good news. Within a month or two I will be making a trip back to the tuner and will be isolating some of these parts, including the exhaust for testing. I suspect one item isn't doing what it claims and this isolation should show what.