[AMOR]

Hi, is anyone taking to the road course their ZL1 with a Magnuson 2650R blower?
Just curious how reliable it is and if any overheating issues?
I’m thinking about upgrading the blower and to use their stock calibration. Or just do a flex fuel with intake while staying on stock LT4 blower. Goal is to get 750 hp at the engine or about 650 to the wheels. I do not like aftermarket headers (the way they sound), so the exhaust must stay stock. Thanks for your feedback.

[Cleancoupe]

I’m not running one, but you shouldn’t have any issues running one. You can be at the same power level with the 2650 with less boost than the factory blower so less heat.

[Revalot]

From what we hear a 2650 blower will run a few degrees cooler, which is better, I think most feel the ZL1 has plenty of power for a road course some say a little to much, but I think your on the right track, a 2650 and a cam no headers is a way to keep it cooler and a cam can help it breathe better. That my goal after I pay mine off.

[SFV1LE]

I’m pretty sure the OP in this thread tracked a 2650 ZLE, I always admired his setup it seemed like a perfect power upgrade for road course use.

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=576096

I track my ZLE a lot and if I add power I’ll do the 2650, maybe with e85. But to your point I only want +150-200 WHP to keep it simple and avoid any heat issues. A ZLE with 750-850 BHP, and the driving skill to use it, is all you need to set top 5 lap times all day with any HPDE group I track with here in CA. Great drivers can win the day with a 100% stock ZLE.

[AZIROC]

I'm in the same boat OP, but more of keeping the stock blower. I'd be happy making around another 100ish hp and call it good. My car is strictly a track car. I just keep going back and forth about if I want to do a pulley or not. 1 side says to do it since I'll be getting a tune anyway. The other side says I'll just be creating more heat. So idk.

[SATINSTEEL1LE]

Headers are like step one with these cars. In order to turn off the cat protection and not cause damage you really need to ditch that stock manifold/cat setup. Then you can really get the tune going and make some real power. You are going to have issues if you turn off cat protection but leave the stock cats on there, and if you leave it on you are going to get very little from a tune. Its like 6 of one or half dozen of the other.

[NG329]

Honestly, heat isn't the real issue with the stock blower unless you start spinning it faster. I've already debunked that myth with a 40minute session on a 90*F day at advanced pace. Emptied the gas tank in 63 miles and never saw any problems with heatsoak.

I was literally just chatting with another forum member over text about this yesterday. Personally, the biggest issue with me not going faster isn't a lack of power but fast left-to-right transitions. The rear end of the car can feel unstable on the limit and the front is actually soft-ish. Adding more power without fixing that issue will just exacerbate it. I get pulled off the corners all the time by Porsche GT3s which make at least 150hp less than me right now.

A 2650 is truly overkill in my humble opinion and I track very very often. If you're truly a track rat your priority should be tidying up the rear and eliminating any wheel hop etc. The car needs to feel as flat as possible in the turns.

In full transparency, I also considered a 2650 and one day I may still do it. Maybe over the winter. However, I've prioritized putting the power to the ground over all else. The 7:16 Nurburgring run has left me puzzled because Chevy never released their setup info. The car wasn't truly stock on that run. The passenger seat was removed. Bill also used a racing seat. The car had a roll cage and the interior looked to be stripped down. Who knows what else was done to the car. Whatever the case was, his car hooked up nicely and that is what I personally am aiming for.

If you look in the track pics I posted in the other thread, you can see the front end of the car compressing in those corners and the front end is not even lowered the last 10mm. The stock setup is probably the best setup for a wide range of conditions, including damp and wet roads. But to get the best performance in the dry I think the chassis needs considerable attention. Particularly from the rear.

My $0.02

[AMOR]

heat isn't the real issue with the stock blower

Can't agree on this. Any forced induction engine will have heat soak during heavy track use, as opposed to NA. And the more power you add - the more heat soak there will be when things get hot and timing is pulled to protect the engine.

Headers are like step one with these cars. In order to turn off the cat protection and not cause damage

I think the opposite - the factory cat protection is a good thing, since more fuel is added to protect the cats and running the car rich at the track is better than having it run lean and have detonation. But I just think the car with headers (and no cats) sounds like an old truck with rusty muffler - just don't like it. Factory exhaust setup is the best sounding for me.

You can be at the same power level with the 2650 with less boost than the factory blower so less heat.

This is why I'm considering the 2650. My goal is to have LT5 power level on this car ~750 hp. And the LT5 has a larger blower for a reason - to gain extra power and have less heat for track duty. Now from what I read - the extra 100 hp can be found on the LT4 by going Ethanol with intake, tune and maybe some blower porting / throttle body. Using Ethanol will also make the engine run cooler at the track, and on the downside - burning 30% more fuel than gas, but that's acceptable since our gas tank is not as tiny as GT500's No pulleys can be upgraded to gain power as that will make blower spin faster and generate more heat as a result. Another thing I noticed is that 2650 has MUCH larger intercoolers than the LT4, so technically it should be less prone to heat soaking.

The rear end of the car can feel unstable on the limit and the front is actually soft-ish. Adding more power without fixing that issue will just exacerbate it.

I get pulled off the corners all the time by Porsche GT3s which make at least 150hp less than me right now.

The rear end of a mid-engined or rear-engined cars will definitely feel more planted due to better weight distribution. On a nose-heavy FE car like ZL1 you will always lack grip in and out of the corner. However the multimatic shocks do a great job in keeping the car flat in the corners. I did 20+ track days and this is my 3rd track car, so quite some experience here. In the corners this car is as fast as a front-engined car can be, I have no complaints on the handling side, but you need to understand the limitations of a front-engined platform and it's weaknesses. My issue with the ZL1 is that my car is MT and I'd like it to be just a little faster on the straight line to be able to catch cars like GT500/911 Turbo S that are walking away currently. I catch them up in the corners, but normally you can't overtake in the corners - just on the straight line.

By the way, here is my track video from Homestead, where I had some fun with the Porsche's including a 911 GT3 RS:
https://youtu.be/I5h6h7LA_jA

And another one from Daytona:
https://youtu.be/2XmkE8kJBdw

[d15b7]

Originally Posted by NG329

I was literally just chatting with another forum member over text about this yesterday. Personally, the biggest issue with me not going faster isn't a lack of power but fast left-to-right transitions. The rear end of the car can feel unstable on the limit and the front is actually soft-ish. Adding more power without fixing that issue will just exacerbate it. I get pulled off the corners all the time by Porsche GT3s which make at least 150hp less than me right now.

hello there - it's nice to meet you. nice well thought out post too! i'm a racer (SCCA and NASA and VRG licenses) plus do some pro coaching. I'd most likely second the 'it really doesn't need more horsepower for DE track driving'. it has PLENTY, even compared to the 'big dogs' out there. a few things though that you mentioned:

- it's going to always be very difficult to come off most corners and out accelerate a late model GTx Porsche. two reasons - one, they are lighter than a ZLE. two, and this is the biggie - the engine is in the back hanging out beyond the rear axle. they have TREMENDOUS rear grip and are planted to the ground like a redwood tree coming out of sharp corners. we have the engine up front, and physics says that the engine in the back will hook up like nobody's business. also you mentioned transitioning quickly left to right? cars with lower weight and good aero will be the best at doing that maneuver. we have good aero but we are heavy. therefore something like the GT3 (or an extreme example; one of my track cars is a Lotus Super Seven Super Sprint, which I vintage race with VRG. it transitions like you wouldn't believe!!!!!!! with zero aero. BUT - with me in it and a full tank of gas it weighs 1300 lbs. so, yeah). the mass of our cars makes quick transitions more difficult.

all in all, the ZLE does incredibly well out on track, given it's architecture and design and especially it's weight. if you wanted to really improve it for track, you'd have to do some things which might ruin it for road driving. I'd personally leave the motor mostly alone, and I'd remove the interior, and AC, and infotainment/sound system. remove those nice heavy seats and replace with lightweight race seats. strip out everything that's not useful. put on the lightest wheels I could find with Hoosier A7s. put on Z/28 ceramic carbon brakes (not cause it doesn't already brake awesome, but to save unsprung mass). put on a pair of carbon doors, and carbon hood, and carbon trunk lid. change out the glass for lexan where possible. take out the side airbags. i'd guess that that would be a total of 300 maaaaybe even 350 lbs lost. I'd suggest adding in at least a decent half-rear cage for safety (maybe +50-60 lbs) you do those things, and leave the engine alone (or if you really want to you can add another 200 hp but I think you wouldn't need to) and if you are a skilled driver, I doubt that there is much out there that would stay with you on any kind of track. and that's leaving the DSSV suspension totally alone.

just my $0.02 on the subject. be safe and have fun!

[NG329]

Originally Posted by AMOR

Can't agree on this. Any forced induction engine will have heat soak during heavy track use, as opposed to NA. And the more power you add - the more heat soak there will be when things get hot and timing is pulled to protect the engine.

This is why I'm considering the 2650. My goal is to have LT5 power level on this car ~750 hp. And the LT5 has a larger blower for a reason - to gain extra power and have less heat for track duty. Now from what I read - the extra 100 hp can be found on the LT4 by going Ethanol with intake, tune and maybe some blower porting / throttle body. Using Ethanol will also make the engine run cooler at the track, and on the downside - burning 30% more fuel than gas, but that's acceptable since our gas tank is not as tiny as GT500's No pulleys can be upgraded to gain power as that will make blower spin faster and generate more heat as a result. Another thing I noticed is that 2650 has MUCH larger intercoolers than the LT4, so technically it should be less prone to heat soaking.

The rear end of a mid-engined or rear-engined cars will definitely feel more planted due to better weight distribution. On a nose-heavy FE car like ZL1 you will always lack grip in and out of the corner. However the multimatic shocks do a great job in keeping the car flat in the corners. I did 20+ track days and this is my 3rd track car, so quite some experience here. In the corners this car is as fast as a front-engined car can be, I have no complaints on the handling side, but you need to understand the limitations of a front-engined platform and it's weaknesses. My issue with the ZL1 is that my car is MT and I'd like it to be just a little faster on the straight line to be able to catch cars like GT500/911 Turbo S that are walking away currently. I catch them up in the corners, but normally you can't overtake in the corners - just on the straight line.

By the way, here is my track video from Homestead, where I had some fun with the Porsche's including a 911 GT3 RS:
https://youtu.be/I5h6h7LA_jA

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the heatsoak issue. I ran 40 minutes straight in 60% humidity and no heatsoak. ...and I'm fukken fast. .....with that said, show me a log where you're pulling that much timing with the TC turned off. As long as TC is on you will pull as much as 4* of timing with any substantial loss of traction. I've done tons of logging. Turn it off and as long as you're running good gas (I ran 95 during my 40-45min run) and you should not be pulling any timing or going into limp mode. ....and my timing table has been modified over stock... still no issues. You burn fuel at a faster rate running Ethanol but you also gain better cooling, better fuel atomization, and more efficient running. You're also less prone to detonation as Ethanol has a higher octane rating.

To your point, I have also expressed desire for a little more grunt down the straight. It's not so much attributed to a shortage of power as much as it is the taller gear ratios of the M6. I also drive an M6 and believe me when I tell you that I know exactly what you are referring to. Trust me I do. Get better drives out of the corner by tidying up the suspension action and you'll gain mph. Also, when I run E40 I am roughly 8mph faster down either straight at NJMP Lightning and Thunderbolt.

I am not trying to discourage you from the Magnuson 2650. I wholeheartedly support that move. I plan to do it as well. Just don't be so surprised if you still encounter some of the same issues after the install. The GT4.r runs circles around the ZL1 on track including higher trap speeds at most tracks and it has a lot less horsepower.

NICE VIDEOS!!!!!

[NG329]

Originally Posted by d15b7

hello there - it's nice to meet you. nice well thought out post too! i'm a racer (SCCA and NASA and VRG licenses) plus do some pro coaching. I'd most likely second the 'it really doesn't need more horsepower for DE track driving'. it has PLENTY, even compared to the 'big dogs' out there. a few things though that you mentioned:

- it's going to always be very difficult to come off most corners and out accelerate a late model GTx Porsche. two reasons - one, they are lighter than a ZLE. two, and this is the biggie - the engine is in the back hanging out beyond the rear axle. they have TREMENDOUS rear grip and are planted to the ground like a redwood tree coming out of sharp corners. we have the engine up front, and physics says that the engine in the back will hook up like nobody's business. also you mentioned transitioning quickly left to right? cars with lower weight and good aero will be the best at doing that maneuver. we have good aero but we are heavy. therefore something like the GT3 (or an extreme example; one of my track cars is a Lotus Super Seven Super Sprint, which I vintage race with VRG. it transitions like you wouldn't believe!!!!!!! with zero aero. BUT - with me in it and a full tank of gas it weighs 1300 lbs. so, yeah). the mass of our cars makes quick transitions more difficult.

all in all, the ZLE does incredibly well out on track, given it's architecture and design and especially it's weight. if you wanted to really improve it for track, you'd have to do some things which might ruin it for road driving. I'd personally leave the motor mostly alone, and I'd remove the interior, and AC, and infotainment/sound system. remove those nice heavy seats and replace with lightweight race seats. strip out everything that's not useful. put on the lightest wheels I could find with Hoosier A7s. put on Z/28 ceramic carbon brakes (not cause it doesn't already brake awesome, but to save unsprung mass). put on a pair of carbon doors, and carbon hood, and carbon trunk lid. change out the glass for lexan where possible. take out the side airbags. i'd guess that that would be a total of 300 maaaaybe even 350 lbs lost. I'd suggest adding in at least a decent half-rear cage for safety (maybe +50-60 lbs) you do those things, and leave the engine alone (or if you really want to you can add another 200 hp but I think you wouldn't need to) and if you are a skilled driver, I doubt that there is much out there that would stay with you on any kind of track. and that's leaving the DSSV suspension totally alone.

just my $0.02 on the subject. be safe and have fun!

Great post! Thanks for articulating what I was trying to convey. Can you shed some light on the carbon door, hood, and carbon trunk options?

[Katech_Zach]

We have a few customers that road race a 2650. It is going to run a lot cooler than an LT4 blower as long as you spin it appropriately. If you get too antsy on the horsepower targets and spin the blower harder to achieve them, you are going to be hurting on the track.

You can measure heat soak over time by seeing the change over time between IAT's at the intake tube and MAT's in the blower. You are going to get hot regardless, but minimizing how hot you get is the goal.

The LT5 has effectively 4 separate heat exchangers (2 for each side) where our ZL1's really only have ~1.5. The aux heat exchanger that we have is almost like an expansion tank, fluid is not forced through there in series like most systems.

I would suggest running a C&R racing 42mm Race heat exchanger or equivalent when paired with the 2650.

You will hit 650whp with a stock lower pulley, and the included 90mm in your 2650 kit. Order the kit with a 103mm snout upgrade and use our 103mm throttlebody so you can remove a lot of the restriction from the inlet side at those blower speeds

[KingLT1]

Flex fuel sensor and tune. Will make a lot more repeatable and consistent power with the stock supercharger.

[clg82]

I have a 2650 on my ZL1, I run it in so-cal heat track and the canyons with 0 issues. I dynod at 725 to the wheels with stock exhaust.