Twin Turbo Oil Issue

[Elite Engineering]

Looking at your diagram it is easy to see the cause. You have defeated the in boost evacuation and are now allowing crankcase pressure to build and vent VS pulling full time suction on the crankcase. Even using a good scavenge pump such as the Exapump, this pressure makes the drain back difficult.


Install an E2-X Ultra system and it should correct all of your pressure and oil related issues. (We just completed walking another customer through the same thing and corrected it all. He had the same system you do).


Here are the illustrations from Turbonetics after they did extensive testing in-house on their big boost turbo LS builds:










Also, adding a gravity fill sump under the turbo first, and then having the scavenge pump pull from it can help, but allowing pressure to build and vent and providing NO evacuation suction during boost is your main cause.


Try it, we guarantee it. If it does not do as we claim, we will buy it back.


Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com

[Omega]

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

Looking at your diagram it is easy to see the cause. You have defeated the in boost evacuation and are now allowing crankcase pressure to build and vent VS pulling full time suction on the crankcase. Even using a good scavenge pump such as the Exapump, this pressure makes the drain back difficult.


Install an E2-X Ultra system and it should correct all of your pressure and oil related issues. (We just completed walking another customer through the same thing and corrected it all. He had the same system you do).


Here are the illustrations from Turbonetics after they did extensive testing in-house on their big boost turbo LS builds:










Also, adding a gravity fill sump under the turbo first, and then having the scavenge pump pull from it can help, but allowing pressure to build and vent and providing NO evacuation suction during boost is your main cause.
Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com

Interesting, you're the only company I've seen include the valley cover into the system.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Vandal0-0]

I had this same problem on my twin turbo set up and contacted Elite Engineering. They sent me detailed instructions how to hook mine up and I use the valley cover port also. Since then not a single puff of smoke and mine was smoking bad. Had way to much crankcase pressure not letting the turbos drain properly

[jeff657756]

No can on the market is going to prevent you from sucking oil through your turbo into the turbine housing. The root cause is high vacuum. Either do something with your turbos (do you have an x pipe or true dual so you can tell which one it is or both?) or try what agp suggested with the tune (my tuner wasn't a fan of this so I didnt have him try it). If it was a an issue of not being able to get the oil out of the turbos fast enough due to crank pressure not letting oil back in, then it would happen when in boost when your can is venting, not when you let off.

[NoDakZ/28]

Originally Posted by Vandal0-0

I had this same problem on my twin turbo set up and contacted Elite Engineering. They sent me detailed instructions how to hook mine up and I use the valley cover port also. Since then not a single puff of smoke and mine was smoking bad. Had way to much crankcase pressure not letting the turbos drain properly

Thank you for the feedback! Did you go with the EX-2 dual valve kit?

Originally Posted by jeff657756

No can on the market is going to prevent you from sucking oil through your turbo into the turbine housing. The root cause is high vacuum. Either do something with your turbos (do you have an x pipe or true dual so you can tell which one it is or both?) or try what agp suggested with the tune (my tuner wasn't a fan of this so I didnt have him try it). If it was a an issue of not being able to get the oil out of the turbos fast enough due to crank pressure not letting oil back in, then it would happen when in boost when your can is venting, not when you let off.

I am running factory NPP from the stock H pipe back. I had to send a turbo into precision early this year and it had some bad build up of oil/e85 vapor on the shaft so I too think its pressure causing the drain to be poor in boost. My tuner as well is having a hard time with the airflow table and isn't comfortable as your tuner.

[Elite Engineering]

Vandal0-0



Thanks for verifying this. We have solved this with thousands of turbo applications. It all takes understanding how our systems work. We provide full time evacuation so suction is pulled on the crankcase at all times emulating the function of a true vacuum pump system, which is the best solution. We never let pressure build to begin with. A vented system will always have pressure present when at anything but idle or deceleration. So few understand any of this as the post below does not seem to understand this either. There defiantly could be a seal breach on the turbo as well, but that also would be partially corrected if you don't let pressure build in the first place.


Please share more detailsVandal0-0 on your issues prior to, and how we explained it all to correct it.


jeff657756

Jeff, if you pull full time suction on the crankcase pressure cannot build to begin with. A vented/breather system can never provide no pressure in the crankcase. Simple flow dynamics explains pressure must be greater in one area before it can release to a lower atmosphere, so a breather always needs pressure behind it to vent. And this is the main issue. And surely as we sell these Turbo/Centrifugal specific systems daily, and have for years, we surely would have complaints if this was not the solution to this and more. We have hundreds that have thanked us for taking the time to educate and explain and correct these issues.


All anyone has to do is look at the source for many solutions to street cars, and that's the Professional Racing Industry....the only place that seems to understand all of this. You will NOT find a single Professional race application that does NOT pull full time evacuation and suction on the crankcase unless the class prohibits it as an unfair advantage. Examples are Stock and Super Stock in NHRA and IHRA drag racing. Or base classes of stock car racing. All others would never dream of "venting" due to the accelerated wear and other issues resulting from this. That technology has not been used in decades. And Vandal0-0 is a perfect example. Our E2-X systems are NOT catchcans but complete air/oil separating crankcase evacuation systems that trap app. 95% of what you don't want ingested. So I think your confusing the average catchcan as that will not address this issues. It has nothing to do with "high vacuum", it is due to crankcase pressure preventing a restrictive free oil return. Pressure of the oil feed is pushing that oil past the seals into the hot side of the turbo and that is the smoke seen. Providing full time suction aids in assisting the return oil flowing back to the oil pan.


The testing performed by Turbonetics was done by their head of Engineering and also verified all of this. In fact, the ONLY system they have tested that addressed each of the issues most aftermarket turbo installs face.


As always, email me direct at: Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com


We can provide all the data and technical explanations of all of this if desired.

[Vandal0-0]

Originally Posted by NoDak1LE

Thank you for the feedback! Did you go with the EX-2 dual valve kit?





I am running factory NPP from the stock H pipe back. I had to send a turbo into precision early this year and it had some bad build up of oil/e85 vapor on the shaft so I too think its pressure causing the drain to be poor in boost. My tuner as well is having a hard time with the airflow table and isn't comfortable as your tuner.

Yes I have the EX2 3 port can with the the clean side separator

[Vandal0-0]

Elite Engineering

We’re do I start lol. Had the catch can Installed with both valve covers going to the can and the clean side. Had vacuum going to the charge pipe before the throttle body with a one way check valve. Let’s just say the car looked like a smoke show at idle and definitely under boost.

After reaching out to you guys on a Sunday with a response first thing Monday morning with 2 emails explaining the correct way to hook it up in full detail and some pictures.

Drivers valve cover and valley cover T’d going to center of cc.
One of the outer ports from cc with one way check valve going to intake.
The other outer port of cc T’d going to both of my turbo inlets with venturi tubes with a one way check valve.
The clean side separator in the valve cover has a braided hose coming off of it with a small k&n filter on the end. It sucks fresh air in so it evacuates all the contamination. So basically my system acts as an air pump. Fresh air In bad air and access oil out.
My turbo kit is a one off as well I built and fabbed it myself.

Haven’t seen a puff of smoke since and was beating my head on the wall trying to figure it out and I have been messing with cars for over 20yrs

[jeff657756]

Originally Posted by Vandal0-0

Elite Engineering

We’re do I start lol. Had the catch can Installed with both valve covers going to the can and the clean side. Had vacuum going to the charge pipe before the throttle body with a one way check valve. Let’s just say the car looked like a smoke show at idle and definitely under boost.

After reaching out to you guys on a Sunday with a response first thing Monday morning with 2 emails explaining the correct way to hook it up in full detail and some pictures.

Drivers valve cover and valley cover T’d going to center of cc.
One of the outer ports from cc with one way check valve going to intake.
The other outer port of cc T’d going to both of my turbo inlets with venturi tubes with a one way check valve.
The clean side separator in the valve cover has a braided hose coming off of it with a small k&n filter on the end. It sucks fresh air in so it evacuates all the contamination. So basically my system acts as an air pump. Fresh air In bad air and access oil out.
My turbo kit is a one off as well I built and fabbed it myself.

Haven’t seen a puff of smoke since and was beating my head on the wall trying to figure it out and I have been messing with cars for over 20yrs

"Let’s just say the car looked like a smoke show at idle and definitely under boost."

You literally just described the exact opposite of OP's problem. He has issues coming off hard acceleration going back into vacuum. And here comes Elite trying to sell him something he doesn't need claiming your issues and his are the same. I don't even read Elite's posts anymore because it's always the same recycled s***. He does the same thing on the 5th gen FB group lol.

I have run my MM setup both ways (from turbo filter to valley and from turbo filter to driver side valve cover) after getting the turbo fixed and neither way smoked after letting off. One thing you could try that wouldnt take much is putting your oil return to driver side valve cover towards the front like agp runs it (What kind of valve covers do you have?). There should be no issue getting oil back into the case since you are running a scavenge pump. Although, you may just have an excessive amount of crank pressure which is a much bigger issue. The 12AN line from the MM can should be plenty big for your power level.

[Elite Engineering]

Originally Posted by Vandal0-0

Elite Engineering

We’re do I start lol. Had the catch can Installed with both valve covers going to the can and the clean side. Had vacuum going to the charge pipe before the throttle body with a one way check valve. Let’s just say the car looked like a smoke show at idle and definitely under boost.

After reaching out to you guys on a Sunday with a response first thing Monday morning with 2 emails explaining the correct way to hook it up in full detail and some pictures.

Drivers valve cover and valley cover T’d going to center of cc.
One of the outer ports from cc with one way check valve going to intake.
The other outer port of cc T’d going to both of my turbo inlets with venturi tubes with a one way check valve.
The clean side separator in the valve cover has a braided hose coming off of it with a small k&n filter on the end. It sucks fresh air in so it evacuates all the contamination. So basically my system acts as an air pump. Fresh air In bad air and access oil out.
My turbo kit is a one off as well I built and fabbed it myself.

Haven’t seen a puff of smoke since and was beating my head on the wall trying to figure it out and I have been messing with cars for over 20yrs

Excellent!! This is why it is critical to get routing correct.


And were always here for assistance if needed. You did it right!

[NoDakZ/28]

Originally Posted by Vandal0-0

Yes I have the EX2 3 port can with the the clean side separator

Thanks

Originally Posted by jeff657756

"Let’s just say the car looked like a smoke show at idle and definitely under boost."

You literally just described the exact opposite of OP's problem. He has issues coming off hard acceleration going back into vacuum. And here comes Elite trying to sell him something he doesn't need claiming your issues and his are the same. I don't even read Elite's posts anymore because it's always the same recycled s***. He does the same thing on the 5th gen FB group lol.

I have run my MM setup both ways (from turbo filter to valley and from turbo filter to driver side valve cover) after getting the turbo fixed and neither way smoked after letting off. One thing you could try that wouldnt take much is putting your oil return to driver side valve cover towards the front like agp runs it (What kind of valve covers do you have?). There should be no issue getting oil back into the case since you are running a scavenge pump. Although, you may just have an excessive amount of crank pressure which is a much bigger issue. The 12AN line from the MM can should be plenty big for your power level.

Running stock valve covers, and my pan is tapped on the passenger side behind the oil level sensor.

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

Try it, we guarantee it. If it does not do as we claim, we will buy it back.

Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com

I went ahead and ordered it, hopefully it works as they claim or I will do what they have claimed and have them buy it back. I too received their email and was very detailed and I appreciated that, however, I was disappointed that they didn't offer a Camaro5 discount (I asked twice in email, and through PM with no response). We will see if this all hold true on the drain end, crossing my fingers. Thanks to all your responses and I will update this once I receive and review the results.

[Vandal0-0]

Originally Posted by jeff657756

"Let’s just say the car looked like a smoke show at idle and definitely under boost."

You literally just described the exact opposite of OP's problem. He has issues coming off hard acceleration going back into vacuum. And here comes Elite trying to sell him something he doesn't need claiming your issues and his are the same. I don't even read Elite's posts anymore because it's always the same recycled s***. He does the same thing on the 5th gen FB group lol.

I have run my MM setup both ways (from turbo filter to valley and from turbo filter to driver side valve cover) after getting the turbo fixed and neither way smoked after letting off. One thing you could try that wouldnt take much is putting your oil return to driver side valve cover towards the front like agp runs it (What kind of valve covers do you have?). There should be no issue getting oil back into the case since you are running a scavenge pump. Although, you may just have an excessive amount of crank pressure which is a much bigger issue. The 12AN line from the MM can should be plenty big for your power level.

I never claimed my issue was the same as the OPs. I just stated I had a smoking problem and let him know how I fixed mine. MM has good stuff also and I have talked to him since before he had his company and his old WS6 silver car winning races so he knows his stuff as well

[NoDakZ/28]

Update: Catch can did not fix the smoke issue. I will do what AGP Turbo suggested and it goes back to my tuner next week to modify the flow table. If that doesn't solve the issue we will build a oil return reservoir and see if that works. Thanks to all that has had an input on this!

[AGP Turbo]

Make sure you switch back to your MM catch can before you blow out the rear main seal.